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Random health and exercise thoughts - Page 2648

post #39706 of 57257
The internet is telling me differently, seems quite dangerous and not fun.
post #39707 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkI View Post

Ok, this is what I am going to do now, yes I lift at 6.

Finalized diet, right here.

Just to be sure I did the math right, that means my lifting day calories come out to 2,500, and rest days 2,200 correct?

Lifting days first meal would be approx 420 calories, second 495 and post workout meal would be 1,585 calories?

Feel like I did some gorilla math and something is off, but maybe not.

If I stall for more than two weeks how should I go about adjusting? Drop some carbs and some fats, how many grams each?

And the consensus for moderate cardio on rest days is fine, just no HITT?

@conceptionist

Yeah, I did fuck that up, lifting day calories would be 2,750 total. 420, 495 and 1,835 calories throughout the three meals.
post #39708 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuji View Post

The internet is telling me differently, seems quite dangerous and not fun.
The internet says everything is dangerous, lithium is fun. I seriously need to change my username.
post #39709 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkI View Post

I think what we are trying to achieve through all this mental masturbation is that yes, results can come though certain efforts, such as yours, but OPTIMAL results can come otherwise.

I personally have tried the super strict count macros way and ended up burning out before I was where i wanted to be. Slow and steady with a ton of patience and checking your measurements regularly seems to work the best unless you need to cut x amount of overall weight for a fight or a contest in a short amount of time.
post #39710 of 57257

Yeah, like I've said before this is what I would consider an optimal cut given Mark wants to try to do it Leangains style. Based on what I've seen, most prof BBers just do straight deficits every day, no carb/calorie cycling, and no particular timing at all. Carbs every meal and so on. I just like to experiment with different methods. The advice I gave to Mark is based on a lot of well known lifters suggestions and it worked very well for me on my last cut.

 

I also want to be very thorough and detailed to not leave anything up for interpretation or unclear.

Example: Mark hears I do carb cycling, tries it out for himself but gets in the wrong way around with the macros. The whole point of it is nullified. By giving very clear macros and so on I can limit those misunderstandings.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkI View Post


Yeah, I did fuck that up, lifting day calories would be 2,750 total. 420, 495 and 1,835 calories throughout the three meals.
 

Its possible that 1800 calories post workout is too much to be able to do comfortably and that it affects your sleep since you will be having that meal pretty late.

If thats the case, I would increase the calories in the first meal of the day by upping the protein most (say 25g more and maybe another 5g fat). Just make sure you adjust the post workout meal then so you hit the same daily calories. Don't mess much with the smaller pre workout meal. That meal is not supposed to get you very full, but to give you enough energy to lift hard.

 

Yes, you can do cardio on rest days. Just don't do anything very strenuous like HIIT, unless you absolutely need it to start losing fat again after stalling (you won't need it most likely, and def not before 12% bf).

Simply do some steady state (equally strenuous the whole time, low tempo) for 30-45 mins. Thats all you need to get the desired effect. 

You won't need any carbs for this on your rest days. Going low carb and doing cardio should promote fat loss further as the body won't have available carbs for energy and thus burns fat.


Edited by conceptionist - 2/12/14 at 3:30am
post #39711 of 57257
Borderline personality is the worst possible thing you can have on your medical record,
post #39712 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

Yeah, like I've said before this is what I would consider an optimal cut given Mark wants to try to do it Leangains style. Based on what I've seen, most prof BBers just do straight deficits every day, no carb/calorie cycling, and no particular timing at all. Carbs every meal and so on. I just like to experiment with different methods. The advice I gave to Mark is based on a lot of well known lifters suggestions and it worked very well for me on my last cut.

I also want to be very thorough and detailed to not leave anything up for interpretation or unclear.
Example: Mark hears I do carb cycling, tries it out for himself but gets in the wrong way around with the macros. The whole point of it is nullified. By giving very clear macros and so on I can limit those misunderstandings.

Its possible that 1800 calories post workout is too much to be able to do comfortably and that it affects your sleep since you will be having that meal pretty late.
If thats the case, I would increase the calories in the first meal of the day by upping the protein most (say 25g more and maybe another 5g fat). Just make sure you adjust the post workout meal then so you hit the same daily calories. Don't mess much with the smaller pre workout meal. That meal is not supposed to get you very full, but to give you enough energy to lift hard.

Yes, you can do cardio on rest days. Just don't do anything very strenuous like HIIT, unless you absolutely need it to start losing fat again after stalling (you won't need it most likely, and def not before 12% bf).
Simply do some steady state (equally strenuous the whole time, low tempo) for 30-45 mins. Thats all you need to get the desired effect. 
You won't need any carbs for this on your rest days. Going low carb and doing cardio should promote fat loss further as the body won't have available carbs for energy and thus burns fat.

By the time he reaches sub 10% bf he's going to be well under 2k Cals a day and he's going to rebound hard. I've done this and store fat like he does. This is a great way to destroy your metabolism.
post #39713 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post

I personally have tried the super strict count macros way and ended up burning out before I was where i wanted to be. Slow and steady with a ton of patience and checking your measurements regularly seems to work the best unless you need to cut x amount of overall weight for a fight or a contest in a short amount of time.

By burning out what exactly do you mean? You stalled with weight loss and had no energy? Can't this be negated by doing a refeed or maintenance for a few days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post

By the time he reaches sub 10% bf he's going to be well under 2k Cals a day and he's going to rebound hard. I've done this and store fat like he does. This is a great way to destroy your metabolism.

Once again, what do you mean rebound hard?
post #39714 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post


By the time he reaches sub 10% bf he's going to be well under 2k Cals a day and he's going to rebound hard. I've done this and store fat like he does. This is a great way to destroy your metabolism.

 

You think so?

What were your daily deficit at the start and end then and how much weight did you have to lose?

 

I mean, I estimate his maintenance to be around 3000. With this calorie cycling, it averages out to about 2500 calories a day, which is a 500 deficit for around a pound of weight loss a week.

 

I may have started a bit higher on my cut, say an average of 350 calorie deficit between my rest and workout days, but not much smaller than that. I think I did 2800 on workout days and 2300 on rest days for 3x lifting a week which becomes an average of 2500. My maintenance calories were around 2850. 

 

I didn't need to make big calorie reductions during the cut either. Dropped 200 off every workout day and 300 off every rest day at the very end, but looking back I think I took that cut a bit too far. Prob lost some muscle in the process. I don't think my metabolism took any damage anyway. My bodybugg didn't show any bid drop in calorie expenditure by the end in comparison to where I started. 200 calorie difference max but that's expected since I lost about 15 pounds.

 

 

Otherwise I agree its better to start safer. Mark has more fat to lose than I had so he will need to be cutting much longer.

 

In that case Mark, bump up both days by 200 calories.

 

Workout days would be:

225p, 50f, 400c

 

Rest days:

225p, 120f, 100c

 

With 4x a week lifting, this is an average of 300 daily deficit with a theoretical maintenance of 3000. In theory, you will lose 0.75 lbs a week but it might be more.

This has to be considered a very smooth start. Do this and if nothing happens for 2 weeks straight, then you can reduce calories by taking 25g carbs of workout days and 10g fat off rest days.

 

Lets just have him do this now and not talk much about it further. It just adds to confusion. Like I've said, he could go an more simplified route but I have no personal experience with that and thus I won't recommend it. I only recommend things I've tried for myself. Mark has asked me for advice and then I will give him a plan based on what I do.

 

Also, the whole reason I am strict with this is for the sake of consistency. If something is off or if weight loss stalls, its very easy to just change the macros slightly and weight loss will start again. I'm not sure what you mean iham with burning out except in a mental kind of way, that your finding it stressful to think about food and measure things out. I understand that and then you just have to find a way of dealing with it. Maybe cook all your food in advance. Otherwise just make sure you hit your daily macros and not care about timing. Its a minor toss up that won't affect much.

 

Edit: Feel free to PM me instead Mark if you have any questions so we can discuss details in private instead of bombarding this thread.


Edited by conceptionist - 2/12/14 at 6:04am
post #39715 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptionist View Post

You think so?
I mean, I estimate his maintenance to be around 3000. With this calorie cycling, it averages out to about 2500 calories a day, which is a 500 deficit for around a pound of weight loss a week.

I may have started a bit higher on my cut, say an average of 350 calorie deficit between my rest and workout days, but not much smaller than that. I think I did 2800 on workout days and 2300 on rest days for 3x lifting a week which becomes an average of 2500. My maintenance calories were around 2850. 

I didn't need to make big calorie reductions during the cut either. Dropped 200 off every workout day and 300 off every rest day at the very end, but looking back I think I took that cut a bit too far. Prob lost some muscle in the process. I don't think my metabolism took any damage anyway. My bodybugg didn't show any bid drop in calorie expenditure by the end in comparison to where I started. 200 calorie difference max but that's expected since I lost about 15 pounds.


Otherwise I agree its better to start safer. 
In that case Mark, bump up both days by 200 calories. If nothing happens for 2 weeks straight, then you can reduce calories again.

Workout days would be:
225p, 50f, 400c

Rest days:
225p, 120f, 100c

Done
post #39716 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkI View Post

Once again, what do you mean rebound hard?

If your calories go too low, your body will think it's in starvation mode. Once you bring your calories back up to acceptable levels, your body will start storing those as fat to prep itself for another potential starvation.

Or so the theory goes.
post #39717 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkI View Post

By burning out what exactly do you mean? You stalled with weight loss and had no energy? Can't this be negated by doing a refeed or maintenance for a few days?
Once again, what do you mean rebound hard?

What I mean by rebound is when you are done cutting you are going to have a low enough maintenance calorie level that your body is going to put on fat really easily. Do what you want and experiment but personally my last resort would be to cut calories. I change one variable at a time and I would prefer to burn more calories with increased workload than to start lowering my metabolism. It's really easy to fuck up your metabolism and takes a while to get it back to a good level.
post #39718 of 57257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihambrecht View Post

What I mean by rebound is when you are done cutting you are going to have a low enough maintenance calorie level that your body is going to put on fat really easily. Do what you want and experiment but personally my last resort would be to cut calories. I change one variable at a time and I would prefer to burn more calories with increased workload than to start lowering my metabolism. It's really easy to fuck up your metabolism and takes a while to get it back to a good level.

I've heard this too, but i've heard that it's actually a positive thing, because if you raise calories again slowly, and watch macros, you'll build new muscle quickly.

And I don't ever plan on taking calories THAT crazy low, I think the lowest i'll attempt is around 1,800 on workout days, and just introduce cardio.
post #39719 of 57257
I think by burn out he means expending too much mental energy on meal timing/getting your macro ratio exactly right, especially when you're busy or on the go.

What helped me in my cut is knowing "ok it's a high fat day i'm in a rush ok gonna order 2 mcdoubles without the bun" or "ok it's a high carb day i'm gonna go to subway and get a footlong double meat chicken breast w/ only 1 bun." and knowing what the macros in those were.

BW in protein and between 75% and 80% of your non-protein calories from fat (if rest day) or carbs (if workout day). Putting this kinda shit on autopilot takes your mind off of it.
post #39720 of 57257

I edited my last post and added some more stuff.

 

Read that.

 

I don't want to push you into some method that requires way too much effort. Simply focus on hitting those macros every day. Not harder than that. Eat stuff you like. Feel free to squeeze in some treats every now and then as long as you don't go well over your macros, like GN said.

 

Starting this high with only a 300 deficit a day, you'll have lots of room for reductions later on. I also did more frequent walking (not intense cardio) at the end rather than reducing calories.

 

1800 a day is waaaaay too low on a workout day Mark. Thats a good way to fuck up your metabolism. You prob won't need to go under 2500 on workout days and 2000 on rest days, if you're patient and don't reduce calories as soon as you start fearing you've stalled. Increase acitivity first when you stall (unless you're already very active) and then reduce calories slowly in the increments I've written.

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