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required reading for aspiring law students? - Page 4

post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post
Free professional advice: It's rarely a good idea to start an argument with an obviously false assertion of fact. In doing so, you risk losing all credibility with your audience regardless of how compelling or well-reasoned the words that follow are.

Messageboards would be plain boring without hyperbole. How else could one offend or annoy?
post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
If I could do only the type of work that I like doing (criminal defense), then I would be very happy as a lawyer. Unfortunately, I have to take civil cases too to pay the bills (actually make a lot more money on civil cases than on criminal cases), and I pretty much hate doing civil cases. But, my practice has been heading more and more in the direction of being able to only do the cases I like (though, it's hard to say no when someone comes up to you with a killer civil case or a killer retainer for a civil case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
Welcome to the profession. Now get off of styleforum and get to work.
Thank you for the welcome, but it sounds like you're the one who should get off this forum and get back to work
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verno Inferno View Post
Kick ass in your first year of law school. Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in your crosshairs and take them down. Just remember. They can buy anything. But they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.
Yes, the one thing the law field needs is more insecure nerds "taking down" the establishment with the grunt force of their "backbones." I know where you're coming from, but this macho crap needs to stop, seriously... especially if it's coming from adults who have long graduated from law school. A real adult, or in SF terms a 'gentleman', is compassionate, reserved, and thoughtful, not a maniac running around doing dick-swinging contests. Being able to rise above another's attack on your ego is one of the hardest social things to do, but the perspective it offers is the surest way to not getting overstressed.
post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman View Post
Think about what we three have in common.

Former biglaws?
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
Yes, the one thing the law field needs is more insecure nerds "taking down" the establishment with the grunt force of their "backbones." I know where you're coming from, but this macho crap needs to stop, seriously... especially if it's coming from adults who have long graduated from law school. A real adult, or in SF terms a 'gentleman', is compassionate, reserved, and thoughtful, not a maniac running around doing dick-swinging contests. Being able to rise above another's attack on your ego is one of the hardest social things to do, but the perspective it offers is the surest way to not getting overstressed.

I agree with you. Sorry... It was just a Bill Murray quote. His inspirational speech from Rushmore.

I love that movie.
post #50 of 51
By way of background, I was never a PD but I worked at a PD's office for 4 years throughout high school as a gopher / investigative intern / furniture builder / etc. I know a lot people who are PD's-for-life, and others who wanted to be. My dad was actually the chief assistant PD for a number of years, and then the acting PD between a resignation and appointment of the new guy, so I know a lot about the office.

First, the extremely low salaries push people out - even those who love it and don't want to go. It's tough to live on $35,000 - $40,000 per year. That's just a fact. You went to the trouble of going to law school, why do you want to earn less than a high-school teacher, a garbage man, etc.? Salaries go up if you can stick around long enough - a chief assistant in a decent sized area can make $80k-$100k, but you need to endure many years of poverty to get there.

Also, you need a few things to be a successful PD: First, you need to have a thick skin. The majority of your clients suck. They don't realize that getting a free lawyer is a privilege not often afforded to people around the world. They lie to you. They blame you for their failings. They accuse you of being in cahoots with the State. This can get to people.

Second, you need to love to try cases, because you will do it all the time. Plan on at least 2 trials per week when it's busy in addition to daily court appearances, etc.

Third, and this might be a subset of the first point, accept that people make irrational decisions. It might not be a good idea to go to trial, but your client wants to out of principle. Fine, give em hell - you aren't going to jail if you lose, the client who made the bad choice is. Even if you think a client is making a bad decision, you need to be able to put that aside and work as if they are making a great choice. Often, I saw PD's get frustrated and kind of "mail it in"

Fourth, fear no judge. Judges come in all shapes, sizes, and personality types and can be great, neutral, or total pains in the ass - or sometimes all three in the same day. You MUST always be polite, you must be careful not to push it too far, but keep your client from getting screwed. Keep in mind that if you set every case you have for trial, you can paralyze the division. The judge knows this too. Start to really push cases, put the screws to the state, file lots of motions, and schedule lots of hearings, and the judge will get in line, especially if you do a good job.

Finally, if you get the chance try to intern with the FEDERAL pd's office
. The pay is much better (in the $70k range) and you deal with a lot less cases. However, these offices are almost impossible to break into. If you get in on the ground floor and people know your name, you have a much better chance of landing a job there. The trade off is that all of your clients will face draconian penalties, ridiculous evidence rules, and sometimes extra-shifty AUSA's who will fuck you if they can, even if it's unethical (this is a minority, but it happens)

If you want to know what it's like in a big firm environment, I found Double Billing to be pretty accurate, if occasionally histrionic.

Defending the Damned is a good book about PD's, though it's an extreme example and probably quite different from anything you'll experience. The overall tone about the camaraderie of the defense bar and PD's in particular, is very accurate and universal IMO

Roy Black can come off like a pompous ass, but Black's Law is pretty interesting, about high-end criminal defense and how bad the gov't (in this case, represented Janet Reno) can screw you if it wants to.

One last tip: To be a Trial Lawyer by Lee Bailey is a good general guide to how to actually prepare and try a case. A friend of mine read it before his first case and won!
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
Yes, the one thing the law field needs is more insecure nerds "taking down" the establishment with the grunt force of their "backbones." I know where you're coming from, but this macho crap needs to stop, seriously... especially if it's coming from adults who have long graduated from law school. A real adult, or in SF terms a 'gentleman', is compassionate, reserved, and thoughtful, not a maniac running around doing dick-swinging contests. Being able to rise above another's attack on your ego is one of the hardest social things to do, but the perspective it offers is the surest way to not getting overstressed.

If you can't pull it off, you can just move to Broward County, Florida, and practice there
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