can you tell a suit's qaulity by just looking?

Originally Posted by Sterling Gillette

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I'd say, dude, you better do your homework.


That's simply wrong. I dont know one single traditional tailor who recommends using these modern fabrics a/k/a toilet paper over traditional ones.

I like how you post clichees you read in a newspaper article.

This, too, is wrong or at least depends on the maker. A great number of much higher regarded woollen mechants than Loro Piana or Zegna don't even sell Super XXX cloth.

I've merely said that Loro Piana or Zegna 100% wool in Super 100s or above is an indicator of a non-cheap suit.

Stop twisting my argument. Thanks.

Originally Posted by furo

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And let's not even get into the fact that deciphering between 100s and 120s wool merely by "looking" at a suit is impossible.

I said looking at the inner label, furo. Read more carefully next time.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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I've merely said that Loro Piana or Zegna 100% wool in Super 100s or above is an indicator of a non-cheap suit.

Stop twisting my argument. Thanks.

So this would be a hight quality suit?
http://www.italianhouse.dk/product.asp?product=491

Sorry for the language..it's danish

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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Care to explain why my list is so "laughable," Old Rough and Ready? 1). Towards the lower end, many suit makers do not pick-stitch the lapels. I have suits from Theory and H&M, for instance, that don't have pick-stitching. My hickey and John Varvatos suits, on the other hand, have pick-stitching. This TREND is undeniable. 2). I can't think of the last time I saw a polyester suit from a high-end maker. Can you? Furthermore, I can always visually pick out the polyester suits from the wool suits in racks at places like Filene's. Sure, shiny "sharkskin" material is made from a animal hair, but it's quite rare these days. Therefore, "sheen" is a decent way to assess quality on first glance. 3). Super 100s-and-up wool tends to cost more. The "100s" number refers to the carding/yarn quality. Low end makers will skimp on the fabric quality to cut costs.
As others have pointed out, pick stitching has become a gimmick that manufacturers of cheap suits use in an attempt to appear more high end. A vast majority of pick stitching is poorly done and tacky. I'd say that identifying well executed pick stitching could help one identify a quality suit, but most people would struggle to do so. It's not that high quality suits are made of polyester; rather, it's that shine on a fabric doesn't necessarily indicate low quality. Mohair and silk are often seen in high end fabrics, and they are used specifically to add a bit of shine to the cloth. The word "super" in front of a number for fabrics has become rather worthless. It's tossed about by horrible fabric makers, because it dupes the uninformed into thinking it's an indicator of a quality fabric. The use of the word "super" has become so overused that its value has become very diminished. I'd say that your first and third points are exactly what low end suit makers want people to think. They use some cheap pick stitching and throw Super 120s onto a tag without it having any real meaning and all of a sudden those who don't know better think they've identified a quality suit just by looking.

Originally Posted by B|aze

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So this would be a hight quality suit?
http://www.italianhouse.dk/product.asp?product=491

Sorry for the language..it's danish

4000 kroner = 780 USD. Still not a cheap cost.

The Loro Piana mark would be a good FIRST INDICATOR that's its not a cheaply-made suit.

However, the best way to assess, is to determine whether it's fused or canvassed. As I said before, you can only figure this out with the pinch test.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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4000 kroner = 780 USD. Still not a cheap cost.

The Loro Piana mark would be a good FIRST INDICATOR that's its not a cheaply-made suit.

However, the best way to assess, is to determine whether it's fused or canvassed. As I said before, you can only figure this out with the pinch test.

You should probably give up before digging yourself in too deep. There are a ton of pretty bad Loro Piana suits. LP makes some great fabrics, and LP makes some rather cheap ones. JCrew uses LP fabrics on some of their suits, which are rather cheap. I've seen other suits which are worse than JCrew that also use LP. LP can indicate high quality, but a LP tag most certainly does not necessarily indicate high quality.

Yes, telling fused vs. canvassed is a great indicator. Unfortunately, that requires touch, which is an entirely different sense than sight.

Originally Posted by zbromer

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As others have pointed out, pick stitching has become a gimmick that manufacturers of cheap suits use in an attempt to appear more high end. A vast majority of pick stitching is poorly done and tacky. I'd say that identifying well executed pick stitching could help one identify a quality suit, but most people would struggle to do so.

That's news to me. My cheap-as-hell, beater suits from H&M and Theory don't have pick-stitching.

I guess I can see maker's like Jos A Bank trying to project a sense of quality by putting crappy pick-stitching on their suits.

It's not that high quality suits are made of polyester; rather, it's that shine on a fabric doesn't necessarily indicate low quality. Mohair and silk are often seen in high end fabrics, and they are used specifically to add a bit of shine to the cloth.

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LEARN TO READ, ZACHY.

I addressed the mohair/sharkskin thing in my post that you quoted. Mohair/sharkskin is rarely seen today. It was big in the 60's, not so much today.

Therefore, the bulk of the shiny suits you see on the racks are going to be polyester.

The word "super" in front of a number for fabrics has become rather worthless. It's tossed about by horrible fabric makers, because it dupes the uninformed into thinking it's an indicator of a quality fabric. The use of the word "super" has become so overused that its value has become very diminished. .

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I already corrected myself on this point too. I said that super 100s from a maker like Zegna or Loro is going to be a half-way decent INDICATOR of a non-cheap suit.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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I said looking at the inner label, furo. Read more carefully next time.

I could fill a book with suits of poor quality that have the "Super XXX Wool" slapped on the interior lining. Hell, before I came to this forum, I even bought one, for the very reason that you mentioned: I saw the "Super xxx Wool" tag and thought "Oh, what a great steal! And this suit is only $200, and I get a free alteration!"

After the suit fell apart, developed a ridiculous sheen from dry cleaning, and stiffened up like cardboard, I learned my lesson, for good.

Originally Posted by Vikingfan

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That's news to me. My cheap-as-hell, beater suits from H&M and Theory don't have pick-stitching.

Walk into any Banana Republic and look at their suits. You will see pickstitching on just about every sportcoat and/or suit in the store.

Seriously, you're not going to win this argument. Your original three points of depicting "quality" in a suit are truly laughable.

Originally Posted by zbromer

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You should probably give up before digging yourself in too deep. There are a ton of pretty bad Loro Piana suits. LP makes some great fabrics, and LP makes some rather cheap ones. JCrew uses LP fabrics on some of their suits, which are rather cheap. I've seen other suits which are worse than JCrew that also use LP. LP can indicate high quality, but a LP tag most certainly does not necessarily indicate high quality.

LEARN TO READ ZACHARY.

"First indicator" does not equal a categorical statement that all Loro Piana suits are well-made in other ways.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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4000 kroner = 780 USD. Still not a cheap cost.

The Loro Piana mark would be a good FIRST INDICATOR that's its not a cheaply-made suit.

However, the best way to assess, is to determine whether it's fused or canvassed. As I said before, you can only figure this out with the pinch test.

So because this item cost 780 USD in Denmark you would say it's a quality suit??....

this is stupid

Originally Posted by furo

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I could fill a book with suits of poor quality that have the "Super XXX Wool" slapped on the interior lining. Hell, before I came to this forum, I even bought one, for the very reason that you mentioned: I saw the "Super xxx Wool" tag and thought "Oh, what a great steal! And this suit is only $200, and I get a free alteration!"

After the suit fell apart, developed a ridiculous sheen from dry cleaning, and stiffened up like cardboard, I learned my lesson, for good.

Seriously, you're not going to win this argument. Your original three points of depicting "quality" in a suit are truly laughable.

I find it hysterical that one of your sales threads lists "Super 150s" in the title to lure readers in, yet you dispute the claim that Zegna/Loro 120s and up is not a good first indicator of a good suit.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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I find it hysterical that one of your sales threads lists "Super 150s" in the title to lure readers in, yet you dispute the claim that Zegna/Loro 120s and up is not a good first indicator of a good suit.

That's because there's just a wee bit of difference when the word Oxxford comes to bear...and notice I don't use the "Super" word that you love so much.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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That's news to me. My cheap-as-hell, beater suits from H&M and Theory don't have pick-stitching. I guess I can see maker's like Jos A Bank trying to project a sense of quality by putting crappy pick-stitching on their suits.
You've actually got it totally backwards. It's usually the more fashion-forward lines, like H&M, Zara, and Theory that do the faux pick stitching, while JAB stays away from it. You've got some poor information and evidently not a lot of experience with clothes. It's not a big deal. Don't worry about getting so defensive. Sit back and read some more of this forum. There are a lot of people on here with a substantial amount of knowledge from whom you can learn a lot.

Originally Posted by VikingsFan82

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LEARN TO READ ZACHARY. "First indicator" does not equal a categorical statement that all Loro Piana suits are well-made in other ways.
The whole point was that it's actually not a good first indicator.

Originally Posted by zbromer

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The whole point was that it's actually not a good first indicator.

+1

If I see a LP fabric or Zegna Cloth tag on a suit, I immediately assume it is an inferior, low quality garment.

Short answer: sometimes, but not always.

I have looked at thousands of coats outside of their original retail environments. Sometimes I can tell the quality by sight, sometimes not. To confirm, I feel the lapel and shoulder. This gives the hand of the fabric and suggests the quality of construction.

Most of the sartorial details that used to be the province of higher end suits, like colorful linings, pick stitching or working cuff buttons, can now be done inexpensively by machine and/or cheap labor.

But the whole question points in the wrong direction. Fit is more important than suit quality when you want to look good. An adequately tailored suit, say from Express, can look like a million bucks if it fits well, while a too-large Kiton will just look like a cashmere sack.