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The Right Time to Die

post #1 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:24pm
Thread Starter 
An 88 year old family member who has required round-the-clock care for several years has suffered a stroke. Later today my family will be faced with a decision regarding feeding tubes. Once that decision is made -- if we elect to use them -- reversing it is not so easy.

When is it time to let nature take its course rather than resort to the artificial extension of life offered by medicine? When is it simply the right time to die?

I have a living will that takes the burden of such a decision away from others ... but that's no help here.
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post #2 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:44pm
Erm... that time of the year again... Can family member undertand and communicate? And any ideas of what family member wants to do?... As in for example my Father asked me to drive him to wherever... and it was decided that well what's the worst that can happen is that you'll die trying knowing that...
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post #3 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:45pm
extend as long as possible unless financially prohibitive
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post #4 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunror View Post
extend as long as possible unless financially prohibitive

Why on both counts? Please and thank you.
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post #5 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:56pm
When my Mom passed away, it was hard enough to make the decision not to do surgery, even though it was clear from her living will what she wanted. I can't imagine making such a decision on your own. Everyone should have a living will and make their wishes clear to family. I need to go make out a living will for myself. Thanks to the OP for the reminder. Edit: To the OP, do your best to discern the wishes of the family member and realize you'll never make the right choice, so be kind to yourself. Others will second guess you and you'll second guess yourself.
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post #6 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunror View Post
extend as long as possible unless financially prohibitive
Why should finances dictate whether or not someone lives or dies. Are you perhaps a Malthusian? There is no one simple answer to this question. It depends on ones own ethical and religious values.
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post #7 of 33
12/14/09 at 3:59pm
for the first, for the same reason we give people medicine, perform surgery, etc. i actually dont think the decision for life needs a reason or support, because it is life-affirming. to me the burden of proof is on the one who chooses death, which is a choice contrary to traditional societaly/medical choices for the second, probably for the reason other people would choose against feeding tubes - because he's going to die soon anyway. i think this is where the choice to use the term natural v. nonnatural arises from. treatments for diabetes, aids, cancer etc, none (or not most) are natural, but we don't label them as unnatural life support because there's more likilihood at a traditional life with longer duration. in the situation of financial hardship, i think the resources would be better spent elsewhere than tacking on a few days, weeks, months, whatever, of reduced-quality-of-life life to one who is terminally ill
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post #8 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eztantz View Post
Why should finances dictate whether or not someone lives or dies. Are you perhaps a Malthusian? There is no one simple answer to this question. It depends on ones own ethical and religious values.

im not really sure what you mean by 'should,' finances do dictate whether people live or die, and how they live and die
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post #9 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunror View Post
im not really sure what you mean by 'should,' finances do dictate whether people live or die, and how they live and die

I was referring to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunror View Post
extend as long as possible unless financially prohibitive

WHY?
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post #10 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:11pm
Palliative care. End of story.
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post #11 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinman View Post
To the OP, do your best to discern the wishes of the family member and realize you'll never make the right choice, so be kind to yourself. Others will second guess you and you'll second guess yourself.
Thank you. This is not a first time to be in such a situation -- with other relatives, of course -- and you are 100% correct.
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post #12 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acéphale View Post
Palliative care.

End of story.
This is what I'm suggesting ... preferably at home rather than in the cold confines of a hospital. Perhaps because it's what I would choose.

But the decision is not up to me alone.
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post #13 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post
This is what I'm suggesting ... preferably at home rather than in the cold confines of a hospital. Perhaps because it's what I would choose. But the decision is not up to me alone.
Get your family member 'home' asap. There are peoples who will do all all the home hospice care but it takes time and that is probably the one thing you do not have. So you may have to. My Father went into hospital 10 days before Christmas... It was Christmas so... but by which time he knew that it was the last Christmas he would have so... the choice was... After New Year as I mentioned he was asking me to drive him to France... pushing luck and... What do you think your family member would want - to sleep in his/her own bed again/smell and feel the air of there... feel... Oh and strength and love to you all.
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post #14 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:44pm
One observation I've made on this, and it's purely anecdotal, is that no one I know says "please keep me alive as long as possible, even if "alive" only means a machine is keeping my systems functioning." I just don't know anyone who would choose to live like this, particularly those who have had a long life.

For me, if I were 88 years old, already in bad shape, and suffered a stroke that doesn't allow me to enjoy life, I would have no trouble believing it's my time to go. It's one thing to live with a disability that allows one to function at a diminished capacity. However, if my life were confined to a bed/chair and I was in such bad shape that I needed a tube for nourishment, I would have no trouble letting go.

Good luck with this, I'm sure it's a terrible position to be in. I hope you're able to find a resolution that brings everyone involved peace.
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post #15 of 33
12/14/09 at 4:51pm
My children have very clear instructions that I am NOT to be hooked up to any machine that exists solely to keep me alive. No resucitation, no heroic measures. There are also provisions to immediately cremate my remains, and a sum of money reserved to throw a party including an open bar. I hope to simply die. Quickly.
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