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post #3991 of 4124
Sourness could be due to the roast, or region being pulled as well even if it is producing a 2oz shot in 30 seconds.
post #3992 of 4124

I just ordered a couple of bags from Coava Coffee, one of them being this:

 

http://coavacoffee.com/collections/brewed-coffee/products/mr-david-mburu-kenya

 

Really an amazing bean; rich flavors, very chocolatey. 

post #3993 of 4124
Does anyone make espresso blends themselves here or do you just let the roasters take over? Just got a miss Silvia and have been practicing with some run of the mill papi hooligan roast. I normally go for South American or Mexican origin, but allegedly that's too high acid to be used alone. Thoughts?
post #3994 of 4124

Sour happens when coffee or espresso is made at too low of a water/brewing temperature. Raise the temp and see if the sourness goes away.

 

Bitterness develops when brewed at too high a temperature. 

 

Easiest fix to adjust taste

post #3995 of 4124
Some roasts of coffee as well as origin are prone to higher acid content anyway, right?
post #3996 of 4124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
 

Sour happens when coffee or espresso is made at too low of a water/brewing temperature. Raise the temp and see if the sourness goes away.

 

Bitterness develops when brewed at too high a temperature. 

 

Easiest fix to adjust taste

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Principle View Post

Some roasts of coffee as well as origin are prone to higher acid content anyway, right?

 

Yes and yes. But also no. Coffee is an incredibly complex thing. It's hard to point to any one thing and say, "This is why it's too sour!"

 

One thing to think about though: the experience of sourness is not generally the result of there being too much acid in the coffee. As in wine,  acidity in coffee is a great thing. It creates the structural backbone that holds all the other flavors together. The problem occurs when there aren't enough other flavors present to be held together. Coffee needs acidity, but it also needs sweetness, aromatics, and depth. The experience of sour coffee is happens when these other components are lacking. A number of things can account for this.

 

The first, as Despos alludes to, is under-extraction. Acidity is one of the first things to be extracted. The "roast" flavors that provide depth are some of the last things to be extracted. Under-extracted coffee lacks balance, and can be very sour. A number of things can cause coffee to be under-extracted:

 

- water temperature too low

- grind being too coarse (in drip methods, because this makes water flow through grinds too quickly, and makes extraction period too short)

- extraction being stopped early (in immersion methods)

 

Second, under-roasting coffee may lead to a sour cup. If coffee is under-roasted, the flavors that provide depth and sweetness to balance the acidity may simply not be present.

 

One way to distinguish between these two issues is to taste for the presence of "green" flavors. Under-roasted coffee often (but not always) presents green or vegetative flavors (think peas, grass, herbs, tomato soup), where under-extracted coffee should not. 

post #3997 of 4124
Noted, will report with results once I buy good coffee to push through this machine. I feel as though I have to earn the right to use good coffee.
post #3998 of 4124
Coffee in Paris is pretty damned bad. First, everything is espresso. If you want more, they make you an Americano. Very few places serve filter or drip coffee, and their efforts were not impressive. The espresso menu is also pretty limited: straight espresso, Americanos or lattes. No mochas or anything else. People are pretty friendly though, and there's a culture of a long, lingering visits and sitting, so it's not unusual to sit in a cafe for a long time.
post #3999 of 4124
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuadowen View Post


Yes and yes. But also no. Coffee is an incredibly complex thing. It's hard to point to any one thing and say, "This is why it's too sour!"

One thing to think about though: the experience of sourness is not generally the result of there being too much acid in the coffee. As in wine,  acidity in coffee is a great thing. It creates the structural backbone that holds all the other flavors together. The problem occurs when there aren't enough other flavors present to be held together. Coffee needs acidity, but it also needs sweetness, aromatics, and depth. The experience of sour coffee is happens when these other components are lacking. A number of things can account for this.

The first, as Despos alludes to, is under-extraction. Acidity is one of the first things to be extracted. The "roast" flavors that provide depth are some of the last things to be extracted. Under-extracted coffee lacks balance, and can be very sour. A number of things can cause coffee to be under-extracted:

- water temperature too low
- grind being too coarse (in drip methods, because this makes water flow through grinds too quickly, and makes extraction period too short)
- extraction being stopped early (in immersion methods)

Second, under-roasting coffee may lead to a sour cup. If coffee is under-roasted, the flavors that provide depth and sweetness to balance the acidity may simply not be present.

One way to distinguish between these two issues is to taste for the presence of "green" flavors. Under-roasted coffee often (but not always) presents green or vegetative flavors (think peas, grass, herbs, tomato soup), where under-extracted coffee should not. 

I think this day an age though many, I'd even say most espresso being pulled in NYC is done with lighter roasted coffee, which is inherently acidic. Adding the pressure of the espresso method it just makes it worse. Just looking at the beans in the hopper in most cases is enough to make know what I will get in terms of acid before the under/over extraction even comes into play.
post #4000 of 4124
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

Coffee in Paris is pretty damned bad. First, everything is espresso. If you want more, they make you an Americano. Very few places serve filter or drip coffee, and their efforts were not impressive. The espresso menu is also pretty limited: straight espresso, Americanos or lattes. No mochas or anything else. People are pretty friendly though, and there's a culture of a long, lingering visits and sitting, so it's not unusual to sit in a cafe for a long time.

La Cafeotheque was pretty decent when I was there a few years go.
post #4001 of 4124
It is funny, I randomly asked out this girl last week. We met for drinks. It turns out she works for Starbucks corporate. We had a joyous, bitter (pun intended) conversation on the state of coffee in NYC. I'm in love.
post #4002 of 4124
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


I think this day an age though many, I'd even say most espresso being pulled in NYC is done with lighter roasted coffee, which is inherently acidic. Adding the pressure of the espresso method it just makes it worse. Just looking at the beans in the hopper in most cases is enough to make know what I will get in terms of acid before the under/over extraction even comes into play.

 

Roast definitely plays a role. The point I was making is just that the coffees you like aren't necessarily less acidic, just better balanced with other things. 

post #4003 of 4124
Yeah, I think this is generally why I have favored most blends for espresso over single origin shots. I feel like you have much more control over what you're trying to achieve in the cup.
post #4004 of 4124
I tried a new Edinborough-based roaster called Artisan Roast and ordered some Kenyan Kiamabara AA beans. Pretty tasty, up to the same standard as the Workshop beans I usually get. Worth a try for those in the UK
post #4005 of 4124
Quote:
 Roast definitely plays a role. The point I was making is just that the coffees you like aren't necessarily less acidic, just better balanced with other things. 

Would have worded my post differently.  Wasn't trying to attribute sourness solely to brewing temp but as a variable when you have a coffee post roast that tastes bitter or sour. Have brewed coffee that tasted bad but improved by adjusting water temperature up or down.

 

My understanding is same as you explained, taste is a balance of sour/bitter. You need both in the cup

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