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Insurance Costs Under Obamacare - Page 48

post #706 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I am not against changing the system, and I think what piob talks about using a Bismark style system. From what I've read on the system, places like Japan and Hong Kong where most tax dollars go to covering basic and emergency care while people still get private insurance for everything else (or the flexibility to go to additional hospitals). Although these types of options are never discussed.

fistbump.gif

I blame the Left for this. The reason is they constantly chant, "Single payer, single payer..." with that smug look on their face that says they like the smell of their own farts are believe they are the smartest person in the room. When I was doing some posting at Democratic Underground I kept getting into fights with the libtards as anyone not for single payer was a right wing troll from the gungeon and they knew nothing about Bismarck vs. Beveridge vs. single payer or national health. I was called a liar repeatedly when I informed them France, Germany and Japan were not single payer systems and eventually banned for supporting a Bismarck system.
post #707 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I was called a liar repeatedly when I informed them France, Germany and Japan were not single payer systems and eventually banned for supporting a Bismarck system.

They banned you for that? lol8[1].gif

"This is an open dialogue about politics. Dissent or disagreement will not be tolerated."
post #708 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

They banned you for that? lol8[1].gif

"This is an open dialogue about politics. Dissent or disagreement will not be tolerated."

People shall not introduce facts contrary to accepted dogma.
post #709 of 739
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/politics/clinton-obamacare-tax-problem/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Hillary basically admits the ACA is a mess but doesn't quite want to tell the folks at the medical device association, where were paying her six figures to speak, that she'd repeal the special tax on medical devices. She's going to make a great POTUS.
post #710 of 739
Smartness.

Trigger warnings. Experts. Ivy-educated. Donkey-kin. Right side of history (TM).

This column sums it up.

Quote:
Jonathan Gruber is smart. He is an economist. He teaches at MIT. Do you teach at MIT? Of course you don’t. He is also the architect behind Obamacare. He is really, really smart. Did we mention that?

Of course, when you are as smart as Jonathan Gruber, it is difficult to resist the temptation to pull your light out from under the bushel on occasion; thus every once in a while there comes an embarrassing revelation. The conservative group American Commitment recently unearthed one such moment. During an interview at the University of Pennsylvania in October 2013, Gruber revealed that

this bill [the Affordable Care Act] was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in — you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. . . . Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass. . . . Look, I wish . . . that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.

One could call it an “admission” or “confession,” but Gruber does not seem particularly conflicted. The ends justified the means. That is something the millions of people who have been forced from their insurance plans would probably dispute, but what do they know? Not as much as Jonathan Gruber.

When a different economist, Thomas Sowell, quipped that “the road to Hell is paved with Ivy League degrees,” he spoke more truth than he realized. Indeed, smart people often have bad policy ideas. But Hell is not about mistakes; it’s about sins. And despite its pragmatic, do-what-works rhetoric, the progressive Left is convinced not only of its own intellectual superiority but of its accompanying moral superiority. Among progressives, stupidity is sin.

Gruber’s comments are a perfect illustration of this belief. The “stupidity of the American voter,” of which he is obviously disdainful, is not an ignorance of facts. If Obamacare proponents had believed that was the case, they would simply have sought to explain the legislation, trusting that more information would be persuasive. The obfuscation in which they engaged would not have been necessary.

No, Obamacare proponents were certain that Americans could not be persuaded, no matter how much information they absorbed. The voters were incapable of recognizing that Obamacare was in their own best interests — or, to put it another way, they were (and remain) morally deficient, a failing impervious to reasoned argument. Their stupidity was a sin, against themselves and each other. Gruber and company were the messiahs they did not know they needed.

Liberals’ disdain for the brainpower of the average American has long been evident. To a supporter who told Adlai Stevenson he would have “the vote of every thinking person,” Stevenson famously replied, “That’s not enough, madam. We need a majority.” Said Senator John Kerry in 2006, if “you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” And in 2009, Gore Vidal, whose estimation of his own intelligence had no limits, proclaimed Barack Obama “too intelligent” for America.

But Gruber’s comments point to a more disturbing reality: To the liberal mind, there is no distinction between academic intelligence and moral intelligence, between what we might call “learnedness” and “wisdom.” In fact, they correspond. The more one learns, the “better” a person one becomes. Since Obama is “perhaps the smartest guy ever to become president” (per presidential historian Michael Beschloss), he must also be virtuous. Since the people who crafted Obamacare had excellent credentials and prestigious tenured positions, Obamacare must be not just smart policy, but good.

This belief is not the product of reason or careful thought. It is an article of faith, and those who would dispute it are not just “stupid”; they are heretics.

That this church of liberalism can, at its most zealous, pose a serious danger to the health of a body politic should be obvious. After all, Lenin was the smartest guy in the room, too.


http://www.nationalreview.com/node/392500/print
post #711 of 739
A major part of Obamacare was the formation of ACOs, Accountable Care Organizations. When Obamacare first rolled out 32 ACOs were formed. Three more just folded up bringing the active number down to 19 in just under three years of implementation. Didn't ol' Piob tell ya'll this was never going to work because it made no financial sense to the players? I referenced Duke doing an initial trial program, and then pulling out, around 2011. I mean, I'm an idiot, and I knew this was going to happen. How could the smartest people in the world, like Obama and Gruber, not foresee this? confused.gif

http://www.healthcare-informatics.com/article/breaking-news-medicare-s-pioneer-aco-program-loses-three-more-participants
Quote:
Three more accountable care organizations (ACOs) have dropped out of Medicare's Pioneer ACO program, dropping the total to 19, down from the program’s original 32, according to industry news reports and verified sources.

The Franciscan Alliance, Genesys PHO and Renaissance Health Network have exited the program, which is now in its third year. In August, Sharp Healthcare, a San Diego-based health system, dropped out, saying that the ACO model was “financially detrimental.”
post #712 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

A major part of Obamacare was the formation of ACOs, Accountable Care Organizations. When Obamacare first rolled out 32 ACOs were formed. Three more just folded up bringing the active number down to 19 in just under three years of implementation. Didn't ol' Piob tell ya'll this was never going to work because it made no financial sense to the players? I referenced Duke doing an initial trial program, and then pulling out, around 2011. I mean, I'm an idiot, and I knew this was going to happen. How could the smartest people in the world, like Obama and Gruber, not foresee this? confused.gif

http://www.healthcare-informatics.com/article/breaking-news-medicare-s-pioneer-aco-program-loses-three-more-participants


You dare question the wisdom and intellect of The Experts?
post #713 of 739
Thread Starter 
I am wondering whether those people who talked about bending the cost curve were smarter than the stupid Americans and knew they were full of shit, or were dumber than the stupid Americans and were nothing but parrots. I wonder that about the papers too. Fucking idiots and assholes, choose one boys and girls.
post #714 of 739
post #715 of 739
I wonder if Gruber has helped to destroy the ACA at this point? Apparently there's video where he states quite explicitly, that if a state does not set up an exchange, the residents of that state do not get the ACA tax credits. As we know the Feds have stepped in to create exchanges available to residents of states that opted not to start an exchange and plans to give the tax credits to those people. There is a case pending before the SCOTUS over this and Gruber's comments have to give extraordinary weight against the federally run exchange customers getting the tax credits.

It would certainly be cosmic justice if Gruber helped bring down this major part of the ACA.
post #716 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I wonder if Gruber has helped to destroy the ACA at this point? Apparently there's video where he states quite explicitly, that if a state does not set up an exchange, the residents of that state do not get the ACA tax credits. As we know the Feds have stepped in to create exchanges available to residents of states that opted not to start an exchange and plans to give the tax credits to those people. There is a case pending before the SCOTUS over this and Gruber's comments have to give extraordinary weight against the federally run exchange customers getting the tax credits.

It would certainly be cosmic justice if Gruber helped bring down this major part of the ACA.

How do you know so much about Gruber?

Nancy Pelosi has never heard of him, LOL

Seriously, some might gloat, or feel the ole schadenfreude as ACA flounders, but I'm too big for that, LOL, LOL!
post #717 of 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsstillmatt View Post

I am wondering whether those people who talked about bending the cost curve were smarter than the stupid Americans and knew they were full of shit, or were dumber than the stupid Americans and were nothing but parrots. I wonder that about the papers too. Fucking idiots and assholes, choose one boys and girls.


The intersection in the Venn diagram is enormous.
post #718 of 739
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

The intersection in the Venn diagram is enormous.

It's interesting, though. I think people like Ezra Klein fall into the category of too stupid to know better, and given that he wrote a zillion pieces on the party line. However, being "not a dumb American" is so important to a guy like him that he is now claiming to be part of the non stupid conspiracy of obscuring.
post #719 of 739
A formerly Independent friend back in Michigan is now a liberal. He told me yesterday he doesn't understand why the Gruber videos are even news and is "confused" why intelligent people think it is. I guess the sub-text is he's smarter than everyone in the room, and if you didn't know you were being lied to, that's your problem.
post #720 of 739
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