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Navy Hopsack Suit? - Page 2

post #16 of 351
So, on one hand, a man can use whatever the hell cloth he wants for a suit. What do you care? But, on the other hand:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
wearing hopsack for a suit is a good way to subtly place oneself as a sanitation worker wearing his Sunday best.

It's a lot more charming when you don't try to pretend that you aren't being a dick. Just be a dick and admit that you are being a dick.
post #17 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
And, I am, sir.

That is straight from the so-called iGent phrasebook.

Well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
Does he want to dress like he teaches 8th grade?

Is there something sub-class with teaching 8th grade in a public school? Or being a sanitation worker? I cannot imagine anyone who is socially secure reaching so constantly for such trite, transparent, and uninventively pejorative references to the honest labor and profession of others. You seem successful in some ways, at least enough to be a steady consumer of expensive clothing. Why the insecurity? I have only seen something like this rarely, and only among those who feel that they have been snubbed. If I saw such a thing at a party, I would make it my job to try to make that person comfortable and at ease so that they might loosen their grip on their feelings of being done wrong.

I wouldn't say this except that it is ever present in what you write and it obscures sharing the knowledge that you have bought over the years that is interesting to hear. Few men can afford what you buy, and those that post online are in the single digits. You can be a better resourse that you choose to be.

I know that this will have little or no effect on you, but I respect the store of perspective in that brain of yours enough to give it shot. I have seen some recent improvement in some of your posts here, especially as Manton has become less active (which, in turn, reduces the frequency of re-inflamation of your feud), and I would enjoy seeing more of that.

As I would if Mantoni posted more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
Unless I can do better, I have to let him flush his presumably hard earned money down the drain on the equivalent of a burlap suit? Like hell. Just because you believe misery loves company doesn't mean I have to let this person follow suit. (Haha)

Okay, so what should NYR get instead?


- B
post #18 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
That is straight from the so-called iGent phrasebook. Well done.
I thought you'd enjoy that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Is there something sub-class with teaching 8th grade in a public school?
When did I say there was? I seem to remember a recent clothing book that thought looking like a school teacher was unfortunate. Perhaps you can ask the author?
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Or being a sanitation worker?
Of being or of looking like? If you really dont know the answer to this, your chances of understanding clothes are marginal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I cannot imagine anyone who is socially secure reaching so constantly for such trite, transparent, and uninventively pejorative references to the honest labor and profession of others. You seem successful in some ways, at least enough to be a steady consumer of expensive clothing. Why the insecurity? I have only seen something like this rarely, and only among those who feel that they have been snubbed. If I saw such a thing at a party, I would make it my job to try to make that person comfortable and at ease so that they might loosen their grip on their feelings of being done wrong.
Are you a licensed iPsychiatrist now? Clothes are about class and status. Most people react this way subliminally, I am able to articulate it. If you find that offensive then feel free to avoid it. Do you usually react this way because you think something is without foundation? If that is the case, I would think you'd be getting riled 24/7 on the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I wouldn't say this except that it is ever present in what you write and it obscures sharing the knowledge that you have bought over the years that is interesting to hear. Few men can afford what you buy, and those that post online are in the single digits. You can be a better resourse that you choose to be.
I would hope you would treat your resources with more care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I know that this will have little or no effect on you, but I respect the store of perspective in that brain of yours enough to give it shot. I have seen some recent improvement in some of your posts here, especially as Manton has become less active (which, in turn, reduces the frequency of re-inflamation of your feud), and I would enjoy seeing more of that.
I haven't responded to him in much longer than a year. You've been watching him tilt at windmills. When he's not around his followers shut down too which means theres less white noise around my posts. However my willingness to help hasn't changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Okay, so what should NYR get instead?
I dont have an alternative suggestion yet because I am not sure what exactly he wants it for. I am categorically sure he should avoid hopsack and fresco for suits or pants. If he wants a blue jacket in those fabrics, then he should probably get trousers in a medium grey 120s to go with the fresco or a plain weave with the hopsack. Good day, sir. [
post #19 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff View Post
Good day, sir.[

Nighty night, FNB.


- B
post #20 of 351
Here comes the science.
post #21 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by binge View Post
Here comes the science.
Good day to you too, sir.
post #22 of 351
There went the science.
post #23 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
That is straight from the so-called iGent phrasebook. Well done. Is there something sub-class with teaching 8th grade in a public school? Or being a sanitation worker? I cannot imagine anyone who is socially secure reaching so constantly for such trite, transparent, and uninventively pejorative references to the honest labor and profession of others. You seem successful in some ways, at least enough to be a steady consumer of expensive clothing. Why the insecurity? I have only seen something like this rarely, and only among those who feel that they have been snubbed. If I saw such a thing at a party, I would make it my job to try to make that person comfortable and at ease so that they might loosen their grip on their feelings of being done wrong. I wouldn't say this except that it is ever present in what you write and it obscures sharing the knowledge that you have bought over the years that is interesting to hear. Few men can afford what you buy, and those that post online are in the single digits. You can be a better resourse that you choose to be. I know that this will have little or no effect on you, but I respect the store of perspective in that brain of yours enough to give it shot. I have seen some recent improvement in some of your posts here, especially as Manton has become less active (which, in turn, reduces the frequency of re-inflamation of your feud), and I would enjoy seeing more of that. As I would if Mantoni posted more. Okay, so what should NYR get instead? - B
I sense a little class anxiety in you also Vox! You don't have to spend your life apologising for the Ivy league education and the chances that that education has afforded you. Why do Americans spend so much time denying that class exists within their culture. There are people on here who hit the roof when certain items of thier dress are criticised on class 'grounds' whilst at the same time they themselves are looking down or trying to distance themselves from the sneekers and sweatsuit wearing folks, it's fucking laughable. The level of lack of self-awareness, class anxiety and hypocrisy on these clothing forums is of Swiftian levels..
post #24 of 351
Thread Starter 
This question of mine has evolved hasn't it.

FNB, pulls aside, what are the other drawbacks to a hopsack suit? I can't tell you how many articles of clothing have been RUINED at my job...thankfully, most before I began pursuing this "hobby" of mine, when i was much less careful.

Vox, would a not so deep navy still work, or do you feel its too blazer suitish? I'm leaning towards the hopsack jacket, with odd trousers in a light grey...mabe with a subtle herringbone.
post #25 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post
This question of mine has evolved hasn't it.

FNB, pulls aside, what are the other drawbacks to a hopsack suit? I can't tell you how many articles of clothing have been RUINED at my job...thankfully, most before I began pursuing this "hobby" of mine, when i was much less careful.

Vox, would a not so deep navy still work, or do you feel its too blazer suitish? I'm leaning towards the hopsack jacket, with odd trousers in a light grey...mabe with a subtle herringbone.

Why do you want to use hopsack, what's drawn you towards it?
post #26 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
I sense a little class anxiety in you also Vox! You don't have to spend your life apologising for the Ivy league education and the chances that that education has afforded you.

Why do Americans spend so much time denying that class exists within their culture. There are people on here who hit the roof when certain items of thier dress are criticised on class 'grounds' whilst at the same time they themselves are looking down or trying to distance themselves from the sneekers and sweatsuit wearing folks, it's fucking laughable. The level of lack of self-awareness, class anxiety and hypocrisy on these clothing forums is of Swiftian levels..



I have been getting PMs asking me why I am bothering with this. I'm not sure that I have a good answer, but I will tilt at the windmill one last time.

You are probably right in one sense...you would have to go back two generations in my family (and approximately in American culture...might be different in your neck of the woods) to get to men who were unselfconsciously classists, racists, and misogynists. I am hopeful that by the time things have rolled around to me, at least some of that is untrue.

But, there is really no reason to be so generalized. We are talking about something very specific here: hopsack fabric. If you have your cup of morning coffee or tea, and ask yourself, "Would an American public schoolteacher who wore a solid, dark navy bespoke suit telegraph that he is a 'sanitation worker wearing his Sunday best' to his colleagues, wards, and family from the simple fact that it is hopsack?" What would your answer be? The suit is navy. The pattern is solid. It is bespoke. Navy hopsack jackets are widely accepted. And this is America, where the suit is dying a lingering death...I am sure that it is pretty much dead in a New York public school. NYR is not wearing this suit, I imagine, into a blue chip board meeting or cocktails at the Links.

And so, we are left with the dire issue of the trousers being hopsack.

Would you not admit here the possibility that FNB's "class" claim is daft? And that the manner in which the claim was expressed, with its reference to dressing like a sanitation worker, trite yet a bit ugly? I can't really call it biting because it is just so weak and lacking in content. He's simply tarting up a personal bias about a type of cloth as some sort of social commentary, and setting up any disagreement with him on the qualities of the cloth as class blindness. It's unimpressive. It obscures potentially interesting information about merits and problems inherent to different types of suitings.

I'll be direct: Neither I nor my friends with the same background would view a guy in a dark blue bespoke suit caustically as a sanitation worker unless he introduced himself as one. And if a man did so introduce himself, he would probably be the hit of the party.

What makes the whole thing more funny to me is that I would guess that NYR is relatively comfortable with who he is and what he does...I am not sure that his objective is to convince people via sartorial camoflage that he has Mayflower ancestors, lockjaw accent, and was expelled from Brown with no ill effect.

I will let you in on a dirty little American secret: you could wear the best that Corvato makes, but if you don't have a lineage just so, didn't go to particular schools, don't belong to particular clubs, do not associate with and marry particular people, don't have a particular amount of money, possessed in a particular way, do not give a particular amount of money away, the fabric of your suit does not in any way add or subtract your chances of being accepted as upper class.

Is not the same true where you are?

So, why should anyone worry about it and select fabric from within the range of classic suitings for anything other than what one likes or dislikes?


- B
post #27 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post
Vox, would a not so deep navy still work, or do you feel its too blazer suitish?

I think it would, but when you leave the navy family, it is hard to wear the jacket separately unless you go to a more casual fabric like linen, cotton, or a tweed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post
I'm leaning towards the hopsack jacket, with odd trousers in a light grey...mabe with a subtle herringbone.

That would like nice. What you lose is the formality of a suit.


- B
post #28 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post
This question of mine has evolved hasn't it.

FNB, pulls aside, what are the other drawbacks to a hopsack suit? I can't tell you how many articles of clothing have been RUINED at my job...thankfully, most before I began pursuing this "hobby" of mine, when i was much less careful.

Vox, would a not so deep navy still work, or do you feel its too blazer suitish? I'm leaning towards the hopsack jacket, with odd trousers in a light grey...mabe with a subtle herringbone.

Ignore FNB. Despite his wealth of sartorial knowledge he is a bit of a prat. Probably best to ignore him and move along.

I think the benefit of having something made-up in navy with the subtle herringbone is that it might work both as a (slightly more casual) suit, but also potentially as separates, giving you a bit more flexibility to mix & match, depending on the circumstance or occasion. In you given profession, where more formal suits are not necessarily required, I don't think there would be any advantage to having a more formal finish to the fabric - unless of course that's what you were looking for!
post #29 of 351
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Why do you want to use hopsack, what's drawn you towards it?

I like it as its a bit less formal than your standard wool...and in my profession formality is not a necessity (although I try and bring a certain level of it to my classroom). I'm fairly new at getting clothing tailor made for me, and at men's clothing in general, and was wondering what the consensus was for a full suit made out of hopsack. I don't mind being a bit different, but if there's something more than the general aesthetic thats wrong with a hopsack suit (pants pulling easily, etc...) I'd rather not make the mistake of finding out after I drop a ton of money on it...I save up money from working after school and summers and once a year go to my tailor with some things I want...and with a second kid now (suprise!) I'll find myself going to him with less this February.
post #30 of 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post
I like it as its a bit less formal than your standard wool...and in my profession formality is not a necessity (although I try and bring a certain level of it to my classroom). I'm fairly new at getting clothing tailor made for me, and at men's clothing in general, and was wondering what the consensus was for a full suit made out of hopsack. I don't mind being a bit different, but if there's something more than the general aesthetic thats wrong with a hopsack suit (pants pulling easily, etc...) I'd rather not make the mistake of finding out after I drop a ton of money on it...I save up money from working after school and summers and once a year go to my tailor with some things I want...and with a second kid now (suprise!) I'll find myself going to him with less this February.

This is a bit of random aside, but I just finished reading Richard Anderson's biography and was reminded that I believe he quite frequently wore or does wear a blue hopsack suit commuting into London to SR...So I suppose you'd been in good company.
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