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The Unbranded Brand Jeans - Page 96

post #1426 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post
 

Soak means putting them in the bathtub with hot water. If you wash them in a machine when you first buy them it makes it very difficult to get much contrast in your fades. Which is fine if you're going for just a dark denim look and don't want ''sick fadez". And don't put them in the dryer unless you specifically want to shrink them.

Thanks. 

I will handwash with warm water and hang dry then. and by the way, should I hang dry in shade or direct sunlight?

post #1427 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar2013 View Post
 

Thanks. 

I will handwash with warm water and hang dry then. and by the way, should I hang dry in shade or direct sunlight?

Yeah, hand-wash is probably best. Just a side note, if you don't use running water, and minimize how much you move the jeans, and even put them inside out if you like, you will lose less indigo dye. And I cant see how drying them in the sun would do any harm.

post #1428 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post

Soak means putting them in the bathtub with hot water. If you wash them in a machine when you first buy them it makes it very difficult to get much contrast in your fades. Which is fine if you're going for just a dark denim look and don't want ''sick fadez". And don't put them in the dryer unless you specifically want to shrink them.

Soaking does indeed preserve more of the indigo and starch compared to a machine wash. Also due agition within the washing machine and the temperature of the water, denim is likely to shrink more.

But it has nothing to do with the ability of achieving high contrast fades. Fades and especially high contrast ones are a result of the amount of wear in a certain time before a wash. If you wear hard before washing, be it by machine or hand, wear will show. Even denim washed often can have high contrast.
post #1429 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post

Yeah, hand-wash is probably best. Just a side note, if you don't use running water, and minimize how much you move the jeans, and even put them inside out if you like, you will lose less indigo dye. And I cant see how drying them in the sun would do any harm.

If you lose any indigo on a fresh pair of raws it is excess indigo. Cotton threads are dyed multiple times untill the yarns can't hold more indigo. Due to oxidation of the dye the denim gets the color. Deeper blue means more dips.

Indigo is insoluble in water. It won't just run off.
post #1430 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post
 

Yeah, hand-wash is probably best. Just a side note, if you don't use running water, and minimize how much you move the jeans, and even put them inside out if you like, you will lose less indigo dye. And I cant see how drying them in the sun would do any harm.

Thanks.

And by hand washing in warm water, I should only make it 100% wet then hang dry? Should I squeeze/twist the jeans to remove all water? I don't like hanging the jeans full of water dripping.

post #1431 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral View Post


Soaking does indeed preserve more of the indigo and starch compared to a machine wash. Also due agition within the washing machine and the temperature of the water, denim is likely to shrink more.

But it has nothing to do with the ability of achieving high contrast fades. Fades and especially high contrast ones are a result of the amount of wear in a certain time before a wash. If you wear hard before washing, be it by machine or hand, wear will show. Even denim washed often can have high contrast.

Exactly... I stated if you put them in the machine when FIRST get them it will be much harder to get high contrast, not after a few months or whatever. Personally when the time comes I throw my jeans in the machine, I can't be bothered to do a soak instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral View Post


If you lose any indigo on a fresh pair of raws it is excess indigo. Cotton threads are dyed multiple times untill the yarns can't hold more indigo. Due to oxidation of the dye the denim gets the color. Deeper blue means more dips.

Indigo is insoluble in water. It won't just run off.

Technically speaking nothing is insoluble, it just has a very low solubility. But the solubility is somewhat irrelevant, so is the oxidization of the dye, and so is the multiple dips of the yarns. The fact is indigo dye does not hold well to fabric and any distressing, especially when it is underwater will remove more dye. Hence why a washing machine cycle takes out far more dye then letting them sit in the bathtub, even if the time, water temp, and soap are constant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar2013 View Post
 

Thanks.

And by hand washing in warm water, I should only make it 100% wet then hang dry? Should I squeeze/twist the jeans to remove all water? I don't like hanging the jeans full of water dripping.

Most people let them sit for a while in the tub, I'm not sure if that makes much of a difference for shrinkage though. Wringing them out might leave awkward fade lines, but you could swing them around a bit and let the g-force do the work, or some washing machines can do just a dry spin cycle (could bring awkward fade lines as well, but I doubt it) which does essentially the same as swinging them around, but more efficiently. I would just hang them still soaking though. This is a brief guide from someone who knows more than me: http://www.rawrdenim.com/2011/03/soaking-raw-denim-the-critical-preliminary-step/

post #1432 of 1501

Thanks. I don't know that there is such an art of preserving jeans :lol:

post #1433 of 1501
@AALLJJPP

Well. Indigo doesn't really wash of... It's abrasion that detoriates indogo dye. Not the water.

Also. Like I stated. It's the wear vs. wash ratio that achieves high contrast fades. So in fact you can achieve high contrast fades even if you decide to wash early or even pre-wear. It's the amount of wear in between washes that determines the outcome.

You are also contradicting your own words by stating the washing machine method loses more indigo than a soak. This is because a soak doesn't agitate the fabric, whilst a washing machine does. Rubbing and moving the fabric sheds dye. Not water.

It's really obvious too. Because without abrasion raw denim wouldn't even fade. And with every raindrop your jeans would turn completely white.

Oh no... Not really.
Edited by Mistral - 6/8/14 at 1:47pm
post #1434 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral View Post

@AALLJJPP

Well. Indigo doesn't really wash of... It's abrasion that detoriates indogo dye. Not the water.

Also. Like I stated. It's the wear vs. wash ratio that achieves high contrast fades. So in fact you can achieve high contrast fades even if you decide to wash early or even pre-wear. It's the amount of wear in between washes that determines the outcome.

You are also contradicting your own words by stating the washing machine method loses more indigo than a soak. This is because a soak doesn't agitate the fabric, whilst a washing machine does. Rubbing and moving the fabric sheds dye. Not water.

It's really obvious too. Because without abrasion raw denim wouldn't even fade. And with every raindrop your jeans would turn completely white.

Oh no... Not really.

I am not contradicting myself at all. You should really read more carefully what I am writing. I stated that water increases the dye lost, not that abrasion had nothing to do with it, I did mention ''distressing" which is abrasion. Of course abrasion is a large factor as well, but that does not means water plays no part.  If solubility plays no part like you claim. Then the water temperature would have no effect on the colour loss on your jeans. The increase of temperature increases solubility, thats why a hot wash removes far more colour. Not much colour will come out of your jeans soaking in an icebath, but a lot more will soaking in a tub of boiling water. With your logic you could soak your jeans everyday in hot water and it wouldn't make a difference as a soak has negligible abrasion. 

post #1435 of 1501
Well. It wasn't exactly how you stated it too. But we both get the point, I assume.
post #1436 of 1501
Well, technically, indigo does not dissolve in water. You have to raise the pH of the water (make it alkaline) to make indigo soluble. I just wanted to mention that. I would guess that the hot water has an effect on the cotton fibers in the denim which causes the indigo dye on the surface to adhere less, and that causes the color loss.
post #1437 of 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy b. View Post

Well, technically, indigo does not dissolve in water. You have to raise the pH of the water (make it alkaline) to make indigo soluble. I just wanted to mention that. I would guess that the hot water has an effect on the cotton fibers in the denim which causes the indigo dye on the surface to adhere less, and that causes the color loss.

Incorrect. Technically everything dissolves in water. Yes thats right, even a glass cup dissolves to a miniscule extent in water. In the case of indigo it 0.001 g dissolves in 1L of water at 25 degrees C. Now that might seem completely insignificant but the solubility will rapidly increase with a temperature increase, and it might be sitting in a 40 L bathtub, and each pair of jeans only having around 3-12 grams of indigo. Secondly making the solution basic does NOT make indigo soluble, however it is soluble in a few specific solutions, including concentrated sulphuric acid. When you submerge indigo dye into an alkaline solution it is actually undergoing a chemical change called reduction. Reduced indigo (called indigo white or indoxyl) is quite soluble, a reduction reaction simply means that the molecule gains one or more electrons. Since it undergoes a chemical change it is by definition not a dissociation (dissolving) reaction. They dye jeans with reduced indigo (indoxyl) which then oxidizes to the blue indigo dye as we know it (indigotin).

post #1438 of 1501
Thanks for sharing the knowledge. Really interesting read.
post #1439 of 1501

Man the grey UB201 are really stubborn. Ive gone through three machine washes in a year now and just now starting to get some fades. I would post pics, but I think it will take another couple months for it to be worth seeing.

post #1440 of 1501
DG,

About how many wears do you have on them? On my UB221s they have been washed 4 times and the washing doesn't seem to do much, but I wear them doing work around my house and the areas that get rubbed a lot seem to be losing a good bit of indigo after 36 wears.

I think the grey wears a lot slower though.
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