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world cup - Page 60

post #886 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
Perhaps, but it's a rare occurence that violence within the confines of a sporting event results in a criminal conviction. The NHL wouldn't exist if they treated the stuff that occurs during the game in the same manner as they treated similar events outside the game. Zidane's little head-butt pales in comparison to what goes on in other sports. Plus, I'm pretty sure Materrazzi earned what he got :P

True.I have to say although I like hockey I have never understood the fights.Are they real or is it a bit of pantomime for the crowd? What would be the penalty if you broke someones jaw for instance?
post #887 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
I'm pretty sure Materrazzi earned what he got

post #888 of 1044
I have heard people say "what could Materazzi have said that was so bad".Just to give you an example,I was playing in an amateur game a few years ago and in the week one of our players had lost his fight with cancer.
We kicked off after holding a minutes silence for him,after a few minutes there was an altercation and words were exchanged were the opposing player said to our player "you are shit,you only got in the team because your mate is dead".Needless to say our guy punched him and got sent off.
That is the worse thing I personally have ever heard on a field.

As I am writing this the news is saying they think Materazzi said "i slept with your mother" and "your mother is an Algerian whore".These are not nice things to say but believe me these kind of comments go on week in week out,along with "I fucked your wife""I raped your sister" etc...etc...To be honest these comments are so unoriginal and widely used you dont even take notice.
I know,as some people can't wait to tell me,I only play for fun and I am not professional but I was just trying to give an example of what goes on every week in English amateur football.
post #889 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by benecios
I have heard people say "what could Materazzi have said that was so bad".Just to give you an example,I was playing in an amateur game a few years ago and in the week one of our players had lost his fight with cancer.
We kicked off after holding a minutes silence for him,after a few minutes there was an altercation and words were exchanged were the opposing player said to our player "you are shit,you only got in the team because your mate is dead".Needless to say our guy punched him and got sent off.
That is the worse thing I personally have ever heard on a field.

As I am writing this the news is saying they think Materazzi said "i slept with your mother" and "your mother is an Algerian whore".These are not nice things to say but believe me these kind of comments go on week in week out,along with "I fucked your wife""I raped your sister" etc...etc...To be honest these comments are so unoriginal and widely used you dont even take notice.
I know,as some people can't wait to tell me,I only play for fun and I am not professional but I was just trying to give an example of what goes on every week in English amateur football.

I played for D.C. United's u-19s and the same thing went on, sometimes it hit a nerve, sometimes it didn't. Sport brings out the primal worst in some people. However, the "political correctness" of our society is so insanely perverse. It's OK to emotionally bother, taunt and grab at someone in a underhanded manner but it's not OK to take up for yourself.

I agree with Earthmover: there are just some people that need something really bad to happen to them as to serve as a reality check. I honestly doubt it worked, but alas...Zidane had the option of taking a beating and staying for his team or standing up for himself. He did that latter and despite what most flower children would say, sometimes that takes much more heart.
post #890 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonglover
...Zidane had the option of taking a beating and staying for his team or standing up for himself. He did that latter and despite what most flower children would say, sometimes that takes much more heart.

ummm... Zidane was the one who administered the "beating." That was why he got the red card. If he had responded in kind - verbally - he likely would have remained in the game, and possibly there would have been a different result.

I think it takes more heart to master one's emotions for the greater good, than to react with violence to a deliberate insult.

I feel bad for Zidane and his teammates, but he took the bait.
post #891 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine
I think it takes more heart to master one's emotions for the greater good, than to react with violence to a deliberate insult.

That's what we're trained to think. That's why we live in such a vapid country: everyone working under people that mistreat them, stuck in poor relationships, not following their proper life paths, etc. Penting up your emotion takes little strength.
post #892 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonglover
He did that latter and despite what most flower children would say, sometimes that takes much more heart.
It takes much more strength to walk away from a fight than it does to participate in one, especially when you know you can take the other person apart. It's called discipline.
post #893 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasso
It takes much more strength to walk away from a fight than it does to participate in one, especially when you know you can take the other person apart. It's called discipline.

OK.
post #894 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonglover
That's what we're trained to think. That's why we live in such a vapid country: everyone working under people that mistreat them, stuck in poor relationships, not following their proper life paths, etc. Penting up your emotion takes little strength.

I think pretty much every one of us knows from extensive personal experience that this is... well, wrong. It takes absolutely no character, discipline, or strength to haul off and smack someone who's insulting you. Ask any five year old.
post #895 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucemaster
I think pretty much every one of us knows from extensive personal experience that this is... well, wrong. It takes absolutely no character, discipline, or strength to haul off and smack someone who's insulting you. Ask any five year old.

This is definitely right as a general rule. I think the disagreement is basically whether there are any times where it is reasonable to react to a verbal provocation by beating up a person physically. To me, the answer is yes. I have heard some horrible things said to me (based on race, physical characteristics, social strata, etc.) and most of the times, I don't react to it. But there are still a few times where I knew the answer, and the answer was to beat them up, and I regret those times where I did not react in a way I thought proper. And it's not because it was the harder thing to do, or because I was noble, it was because I was afraid of the consequences, whether it be me getting beat up or putting others in an awkward situation. But in short, I was afraid.

Now, I'm not saying that Zidane's situation was one of those qualified situations. My guess is it probably isn't. But are there situations where I'd understand a guy headbutting another guy in the sternum during a world cup final? To me, that answer is yes.

As a reference point, I also believe in vengeance (on very important things; little things should be let go of), death penalty (only in theory, not in practice), and spanking your child when necessary. I'm not saying these things should be done casually, but I do believe that there are proper occasions for these things.
post #896 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthmover
This is definitely right as a general rule. I think the disagreement is basically whether there are any times where it is reasonable to react to a verbal provocation by beating up a person physically. To me, the answer is yes. I have heard some horrible things said to me (based on race, physical characteristics, social strata, etc.) and most of the times, I don't react to it. But there are still a few times where I knew the answer, and the answer was to beat them up, and I regret those times where I did not react in a way I thought proper. And it's not because it was the harder thing to do, or because I was noble, it was because I was afraid of the consequences, whether it be me getting beat up or putting others in an awkward situation. But in short, I was afraid. Now, I'm not saying that Zidane's situation was one of those qualified situations. My guess is it probably isn't. But are there situations where I'd understand a guy headbutting another guy in the sternum during a world cup final? To me, that answer is yes. As a reference point, I also believe in vengeance (on very important things; little things should be let go of), death penalty (only in theory, not in practice), and spanking your child when necessary. I'm not saying these things should be done casually, but I do believe that there are proper occasions for these things.
So nobody else takes liberties and generalizes my comments, I'll just say this is what I'm talking about. There is a time to fight and a time to run. He just decided to take a stand and fight, and with the BBC confirming that comments were in fact made about Zidane being a terrorist and his sister a whore (not to mention the nipple grabbing) I think it was justified. That's all I'll say on it. If you're in another mindset (champions of the mundane!) we obviously cannot agree. I think people need some perspective outside their modicum of reality.
post #897 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by benecios
True.I have to say although I like hockey I have never understood the fights.Are they real or is it a bit of pantomime for the crowd? What would be the penalty if you broke someones jaw for instance?
How about if you sucker punch someone, drive (with all your weight) their head face first into the ice and in doing so break their neck? I believe Bertuzzi was suspended for 17 months, and I don't think any criminal charges were filed. He was playing again this year. http://www.justwide.com/files/BertuzziPunch.wmv
post #898 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonglover
So nobody else takes liberties and generalizes my comments, I'll just say this is what I'm talking about. There is a time to fight and a time to run. He just decided to take a stand and fight, and with the BBC confirming that comments were in fact made about Zidane being a terrorist and his sister a whore (not to mention the nipple grabbing) I think it was justified. That's all I'll say on it. If you're in another mindset (champions of the mundane!) we obviously cannot agree.

I think people need some perspective outside their modicum of reality.

jonglover, believe me, i feel what you're saying, but this was the WORLD CUP FINAL.

zidane could have kept quiet, won the world cup with his team, then sodomized materazzi's sister with the trophy.

and if he was really goignto take a stand, why headbutt him in the chest of all places? it was stupid no matter how you look at it.
post #899 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by matadorpoeta

zidane could have kept quiet, won the world cup with his team, then sodomized materazzi's sister with the trophy.

As matadorpoeta states, the man had other options.
post #900 of 1044
But what if France still lost? Then he wouldnt have the sodomy option, nor would he have the personal satisfaction of getting to lay some asshole out on TV. He'd be twice as much of a loser as he is now.
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