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TyCooN's Official Boxing Thread

post #1 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daft View Post
We need a boxing thread.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...al-mayweather/
Quote:
As the anticipation for Pacquiao-Cotto begins to escalate, it's hard not to think about the fight that's gotta happen but isn't a given to happen if Pacquiao wins, that being of course Pacquiao-Mayweather. I'm not selling Cotto short and a win by Miguel shouldn't be considered an upset, despite him being a 3-1 underdog. But when considering Pacquiao has the style advantage and is the bigger star, it's hard to envision Cotto being awarded the decision even if he clearly earns it. In order for Cotto to garner a decision verdict over Pacquiao he'll have too practically beat him almost beyond recognition. And the reason for that is because there's so much money riding on a potential Pacquiao-Mayweather fight.


Everybody wants to see Pacquiao and Mayweather fight, even quasi boxing fans care about it and want to see it. But that doesn't mean it will happen. Mayweather hasn't really shown an interest in the fight and acts as though he doesn't care or need for the fight to take place. Floyd knows that he's gotten over by being a fighter with a manufactured undefeated record. In the process he's fooled some sharp boxing observers and fans into believing that he's a greater fighter than he is. And he's counting on as time goes by that being undefeated will enhance his legacy. Which it no doubt will to those who want to live in their perfect world and don't fully understand how to read a fighters record.


If Pacquiao beats Cotto the pressure will be on Mayweather to fight him. However, that won't be enough for the fight to be realized unless Mayweather can somehow hoard most of the money.


Last week while training for his upcoming fight with Miguel Cotto, Pacquiao was asked what he thought his chances were of fighting Mayweather and said, "Fans shouldn't hold their breath. I don't think it's going to happen. I'm sure he doesn't want to fight.


"Boxing for him is like a business," Pacquiao said. "He doesn't care about the people around him watching. He doesn't care if the fight is boring, as long as the fight is finished and he gets (plenty of) money....I want people to be happy. You have a big responsibility as a boxer."



Pacquiao's words are right on the mark. It's hard not to like and root for Pacquiao. Other than some of his fans being over the top and believing he can walk on water, the guy is a real fighter and is definitely one of the greats. It's funny that Pacquiao - who's the smaller fighter and has a better resume and will go down a greater fighter than Mayweather historically, wants the fight more. And I'm not convinced it's all about money on his part. In reality Manny doesn't have to continue to fight bigger fighters, especially if he beats Cotto. The burden of proof as to their greatness rest moreso on Mayweather's shoulders.


I don't believe Mayweather actually fears fighting Pacquiao, and it's my belief that if the fight does actually happen, Mayweather has the perfect style to beat Pacquiao. But Floyd is more about the money and as it's been said here before it'll be hard to get Mayweather to agree to a 50-50 purse split with Pacquiao. And there's no way Bob Arum would let Manny ever agree to fight Floyd for less than a 50-50 purse split.


Arum and Pacquiao face a huge task in dealing with Mayweather at the negioating table if Manny wins on November 14th. Based on Mayweather's one-sided decision over Juan Manuel Marquez seven weeks ago, he's convinced he's the biggest star in boxing. And here's why. Pacquiao-Marquez II did 405,000 pay-per-view buys, Mayweather-Marquez did one million. Pacquiao-Hatton did 850,000 pay-per-view buys and Mayweather-Hatton did 920,000. Granted, the circumstances surrounding those fights were a lot different and Pacquiao, based on his showing in his last fight versus Ricky Hatton is a much bigger star now then he was six months ago. But does anyone with a pulse think that means anything to Mayweather? Of course it doesn't!



The biggest fight this year to date was Mayweather-Marquez. However, it's inescapable that Pacquiao-Cotto is the more legitimate fight. Manny and Miguel are closer in size than Mayweather and Marquez were. And Marquez was 36 whereas Pacquiao is 30 and Cotto is 29. The debate as to which is the more legitimate and anticipated fight doesn't exist; it's Pacquiao-Cotto.


That's why it's imperative that Pacquiao-Cotto do more pay-per-view buys than the one million that Mayweather-Marquez did. As of this writing Mayweather can support his claim as being the active pay-per-view king of boxing because the numbers support him. Obviously the numbers don't tell the whole story and it would be difficult for Arum to argue against Mayweather being at least an equal draw to Pacquiao.


If Manny Pacquiao wants to fight Floyd Mayweather as much as he professes to he better beat Miguel Cotto and hope that the fight does somewhere close to 1.5 million buys. And if that's how it unfolds then Pacquiao will have the leverage over Mayweather along with the boxing public behind him. Sure, Mayweather will counter with the fact that he's undefeated, but that doesn't interest boxing fans like it used to. They've smartened up and view Pacquiao as the more willing fighter who's tested himself against live bodies who in some cases were legitimately a little bigger than him.


If Cotto happens to beat Pacquiao, Mayweather holds all the cards and will say he would've beaten Pacquiao with ease. The only way Mayweather is in a predicament is if Pacquiao looks impressive beating Cotto and Mosley handles Berto. Even at that, Mayweather has the choice as to whether he fights an almost 40 year old welterweight or a fighter who weighed 20 pounds less than he did when they made their pro debut.


Either way it's remarkable how well Mayweather's positioned himself to retire undefeated.
Is fanny pac full of shit? He's the one that EVERYONE, including people who don't know shit about the sport of boxing, wants to to see get an AZZ beating from Floyd "MONEY" Mayweather. That means there will be money, what Floyd continuously claims to be his reason for boxing, coming in from the fight. Anyways, if he feels so responsible for entertaining everyone then he should put out by fighting for less money, since Floyd is the one that's all about the money.

Floyd deserves the lion's share of the purse:
Quote:
Pacquiao-Marquez II did 405,000 pay-per-view buys, Mayweather-Marquez did one million. Pacquiao-Hatton did 850,000 pay-per-view buys and Mayweather-Hatton did 920,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Mayweather,_Jr.
Now for the knockout blow:
Quote:
Despite De La Hoya's insistence that money was not a factor, the Mayweather-De La Hoya bout set the record for most PPV buys for a boxing match with 2.4 million households, shattering the record of 1.95 million for Evander Holyfield-Mike Tyson II. Around $120 million in revenue was generated by the PPV, which set another record. With the percentages factored in, Oscar De La Hoya ended up earning $58 million for the bout, the highest purse ever for a fighter. The previous record was $35 million, held by Tyson and Holyfield. Floyd Mayweather earned about $25 million for the fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_Match
Quote:
Tickets reportedly sold out just hours after they went on sale. The total gate revenues were said to be nearly $17 million dollars. That amount apparently gave the bout the second-largest gate revenue in boxing history (after the De La Hoya-Mayweather Jr. fight in May 5, 2007 which generated $18.4 million in gate revenue).

On December 10, 2008, HBO announced that the fight generated 1.25 million PPV buys totaling more than $70 million in PPV revenue. This fight is only the fourth non-heavyweight bout to have more than one million buys, along with De La Hoya-Mayweather Jr. (2.4 million buys)
Floyd even beats him in numbers.

Floyd "MONEY" Mayweather:
Quote:
Floyd is one of the biggest p.p.v stars of all time.
and the biggest NON HEAVYWEIGHT DRAW ever !!!! besides De la hoya.

Boxing's Top Pay Per View Attractions

1. Oscar De La Hoya - $610.6 million on 12.6 million buys (18 events)
2. Mike Tyson - $545 million on 12.4 million buys (12 events)
3. Evander Holyfield - $543 million on 12.6 million buys (14 events)
4. Floyd Mayweather $355 Million Dollars on 7.15 Million Buys (6 events)



(pre 9/19/09)
Floyd Mayweather $303 Million Dollars on 6.15 Million Buys (5 events)

(post 9/19/2009)
Floyd Mayweather $355 Million Dollars on 7.15 Million Buys (6 events)

PAY-PER-VIEW KING
Associated Press.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. was once boxing's pound-for-pound champion, and now he's evolving into its pay-per-view king as well.

Mayweather's victory over Juan Manuel Marquez last weekend generated an impressive 1 million pay-per-view buys, HBO Sports announced Friday. The robust result confirms Mayweather's once-debatable superstar status in a sport that thrives on big names in big events.

The bout at the MGM Grand Garden in Las Vegas on Sept. 19 generated a remarkable $52 million in pay-per-view revenue at its $49.95 suggested price, making it the highest-performing event this year. It's just the fifth non-heavyweight event to generate 1 million buys on a list headed by Mayweather's split-decision victory over Oscar De La Hoya in 2007, which had a record 2.44 million.

Most credited that performance to De La Hoya, the sport's top pay-per-view draw before his retirement this year. After leaving boxing for 21 months at the top of his skills, Mayweather appears ready to fill the void left by De La Hoya with a love-me-or-hate-me persona that interests even casual sports fans.

Still, 1 million buys even surprised HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg.

"I'm going to say it's unexpected, but there was always a side of me that knew it was crossing over," Greenburg told The Associated Press. "You have to give some credit to Juan Manuel Marquez's Hispanic fan base, but beyond that, Floyd Mayweather has established himself as a star in the sport. All his work with 'Dancing With the Stars' and the WWE and (HBO reality show) '24/7' has established an image that Floyd projects and that people are interested in."

HBO and Golden Boy Promotions attempted to reach new markets for boxing with a pastiche of Internet events, marketing tie-ins and public appearances. HBO also saw a ratings ****e for the four-part "24/7" series leading up to the fight, suggesting Mayweather's persona and fighting skills were the main draw for that surprising number of fans.

"There's no question he's got a little bit of that Muhammad Ali in him from the '60s," Greenburg said. "There were a lot of people that wanted to see his mouth shut as well, and you can't take your eyes off him."

Mayweather's previous fight against Ricky Hatton in December 2007 generated 920,000 buys before Mayweather took a break during which he danced on network television, pretended to wrestle on cable, and took endorsement deals that raised his profile "” although nobody knew just how much until now.

Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer anticipated impressive numbers for Mayweather-Marquez on Thursday, saying the fight went "through the roof."

"It's big, very big," Schaefer said. "A lot of people didn't believe us. Maybe I've gained a little credibility with my predictions. Most importantly, I hope the world realizes when we release these numbers that Floyd Mayweather, love him or hate him, is today "” without any question, no ifs, ands or buts "” the No. 1 pay-per-view star in the world."
The pay-per-view sales apparently weren't even harmed by Golden Boy's decision to show the fight in 170 movie theaters around the country, a strategy that worried Greenburg. Schaefer said the fight played to about 80 percent capacity in theaters, which were once a regular site for closed-circuit boxing shows.

Mayweather-Marquez also scored what's likely to be a clear victory over the pay-per-view telecast of UFC 103, which is thought to have generated only a fraction of HBO's 1 million sales. UFC 103 was a fairly minor card on the league's calendar, yet the two so-called "combat sports" rarely go head-to-head on pay-per-view.
fanny pac isn't even on the list of the biggest sellers. Floyd already bested Tyson's sales back when Tyson had as many events as Floyd does. Keep in mind that during Tyson's reign boxing was much moar mainstream, and Tyson also happened to be the most popular human being on planet Earth.

Top it all off with the fact that Money Mayweather embarrassed fanny pac's Mexican bestfriend, Marquez, every single round, while many felt fanny pac lost to Marq

to the greatest fighter of our era, Floyd "MONEY" Mayweather
post #2 of 378
I still remember the greatest fight I ever saw, Chavez v. Randall I. This was in the time where Chavez was not just defeating everyone, but crushing them. From Greg Haugen to Macho Camacho, it seemed he was knocking out a guy on a monthly basis. The Mexican people loved him too, much more than they would ever love De La Hoya, because he had scars and looked like a fighter. We're not too far apart, but I still think Chavez is the greatest boxer of this era.
post #3 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post
I still remember the greatest fight I ever saw, Chavez v. Randall I. This was in the time where Chavez was not just defeating everyone, but crushing them. From Greg Haugen to Macho Camacho, it seemed he was knocking out a guy on a monthly basis. The Mexican people loved him too, much more than they would ever love De La Hoya, because he had scars and looked like a fighter. We're not too far apart, but I still think Chavez is the greatest boxer of this era.
Another reason they don't love Oscar so much is that he's not from Mexico. Very nationalistic people.
post #4 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Another reason they don't love Oscar so much is that he's not from Mexico. Very nationalistic people.

He is of Mexican decent. Would you like to be Randall "Tex" Cobb to my Larry Holmes?
post #5 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post
He is of Mexican decent. Would you like to be Randall "Tex" Cobb to my Larry Holmes?
Being of Mexican decent isn't good enough for some of those old school guys. They actually have to be from Mexico. How do you see Nov 14th going? Is fanny pac good enough to bang with a true blue welter in his prime? Is Cotto still the same after losing to Margocheato? Will Cotto be able to stop inertia of fanny pac's hype from destroying dlh and hatton?
post #6 of 378
Mayweather vs RA the Rugged interview. Everyone should hear this. Part 1 Part 2
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post #7 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daft View Post
Mayweather vs RA the Rugged interview. Everyone should hear this.



Part 1

Part 2Mayweather isn't ever going to "win". When he beats fanny pac they'll say fanny was too small, when he beats shane mosley they'll say mosley was too old, when he beats cotto they'll say he was damaged from Margocheato, etc.

He's the Muhammad Ali of our era. Lots of people hate him since he talks a lot of shit, but when he gets in the ring it's game over.

What a lot of people don't know is that Mayweather did call out Mosley TWICE in the past, and each time Mosley would pull the dumbest excuses out of his AZZ. There was the I'm going on a vacation excuse, and then there was I have a toothache.

Floyd isn't alone when he isn't interested in fighting Paul Williams. Paul doesn't have the title of the most avoided fighter in the World for nothing. He took the belt from Margocheato, and he had to jump a weight class since NO ONE wanted to fight him in the welterweight division. Keep in mind that Floyd already had the Marquez fight to prepare for when Paul Williams took the belt. Why not hold every welterweight to the same standard for ducking Paul Williams?We have to look at things from a fighter's perspective. They only fight 2-3 times per a year, there's always a chance to get your AZZ beat, and being beat bad enough will spell the end of a career (see Ricky Hatton). It doesn't make sense to fight a high risk, low reward man like Williams. Paul William's name isn't big enough to get AZZes to fill the seats. Let's be realistic here fighters do it for the money. No one likes to get hit. We can all agree that Mayweather is the KING OF FIGHTING FOR CHECKS. Paul Williams isn't going to bring in the cash.

The radio guy said Floyd is fighting all these smaller people.
1) It was Marquez who expressed an interest in fighting Floyd
2) Floyd did come from a lighter weight class, and he did beat bigger fighters (Oscar, Judah, etc)
3) The thing everyone wants to see is fanny pac getting his AZZ beat by Floyd "MONEY" Mayweather. Guess what? fanny pac IS THE SMALLER GUY

RA goes off about how fanny pac did a better job on Oscar and Hatton.
1) fanny pac has a much moar aggressive style, so it's only natural that he'll beat them moar viciously than the boxer with a cautious style who overvalues his 0
2) Floyd fought Oscar when he wasn't dehydrated to death, even roach admits that Oscar was too fucked up from the weight drain for the fanny pac fight. Oscar kept talking about how his body didn't respond. Shit just doesn't break down in a day, that was the effects of dehydration. Hell, even fanny pac got knocked the fuck out when he dehydrated himself to fight in a weight class that was no longer suitable for his frame. Floyd beat an Oscar at his usual weight that could actually go the twelve rounds distance.
3) Hatton still had the fire and determination when Floyd fought him. Floyd KO'd an undefeated Hatton.

We all know what happens when a fighter receives his first KO defeat, "A prizefighter who gets knocked out or is badly outclassed suffers in a way he will never forget." - Floyd Patterson

Floyd beats shane on points
Floyd beats cotto on points
Floyd knocks fanny pac the fuck out
Floyd embarrasses Paul Williams, and possibly knocks him the fuck out

Paul Williams throws 100 punches a round, but the connect percentage is low. That would be counter punching heaven for Mayweather. Quintana, who isn't even in Money's league, was able to do it in order to receive a victory over Paul Williams.

Styles make fights.
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post #8 of 378
Why do you take these things so personally?
post #9 of 378
Mayweather is the ali of our era? How ridiculous. Floyd's fans are just as delusional as he is.
post #10 of 378
I love Mayweather. Best fight I ever saw (which made me a fan at 15) was his fight against Gatti. Before anyone knew this "Mayweather" guy, I was telling people he was the most exciting fighter ever. He demolished Gatti and, I swear I've watched that bout 30 times.
post #11 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daft View Post
Mayweather is the ali of our era? How ridiculous. Floyd's fans are just as delusional as he is.
Is he not the most SKILLED fighter of our era? That's what separated Ali from everyone else during the Golden Heavyweight Era, he had the highest ring IQ out of any of them. Floyd is the greatest ring general of our times, he doesn't even get hit flush.
post #12 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Is he not the most SKILLED fighter of our era? That's what separated Ali from everyone else during the Golden Heavyweight Era, he had the highest ring IQ out of any of them. Floyd is the greatest ring general of our times, he doesn't even get hit flush.

Dude I love mayweather like you but paul williams would be his toughest fight for sure. Stylistically swarmers like paul (with fricken super long arms wtf) have the advantage over counter punchers like mayweather. Ali had a lot of trouble vs fraizer.

It's too bad williams can't fight pavlik that would've been good fight to watch in order to gauge where paul williams is on the pound 4 pound list.
post #13 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashin View Post
Dude I love mayweather like you but paul williams would be his toughest fight for sure. Stylistically swarmers like paul (with fricken super long arms wtf) have the advantage over counter punchers like mayweather. Ali had a lot of trouble vs fraizer.

It's too bad williams can't fight pavlik that would've been good fight to watch in order to gauge where paul williams is on the pound 4 pound list.
I agree. Mayweather vs Williams at 154 would be my dream fight right now. I can see Williams doing real good if he utilized his height and reach advantage by fighting tall for all twelve rounds. He would bring out the best of Mayweather. I don't see the fight happening due to money.
post #14 of 378
Yea I definitely don't see the fight happening either... I think williams can still fight at 147 (according to him anyways) so that might be the ideal weight for that fight. The interesting paradox that is paul williams is that he doesn't need to fight tall. He's got some great inboxing... check out this punch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzsa6WjZXGQ

I agree with you that mayweather should be able to dodge/block a lot of william's punches but it will be difficult for mayweather to pull the trigger when he's so concentrated on D. When williams fought wright (the best defensive boxer of his generation), winky was completely befuddled.



I can't wait to find out who mayweather will fight next though, he's made all his past few opponents look silly so far. This weekend should also be an exciting fight, just over a year ago never would I have imagined a pacman - cotto fight (even though it is at a catchweight).
post #15 of 378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashin View Post
Yea I definitely don't see the fight happening either... I think williams can still fight at 147 (according to him anyways) so that might be the ideal weight for that fight. The interesting paradox that is paul williams is that he doesn't need to fight tall. He's got some great inboxing... check out this punch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzsa6WjZXGQ

I agree with you that mayweather should be able to dodge/block a lot of william's punches but it will be difficult for mayweather to pull the trigger when he's so concentrated on D. When williams fought wright (the best defensive boxer of his generation), winky was completely befuddled.



I can't wait to find out who mayweather will fight next though, he's made all his past few opponents look silly so far. This weekend should also be an exciting fight, just over a year ago never would I have imagined a pacman - cotto fight (even though it is at a catchweight).
154, because they'll say Floyd weight drained him if it happens at 147.

How do you see Saturday going?
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