Borg vs. McEnroe

Actually, several people have mentioned Federer, if you go back and read again...

I liked Jonny Mac's fire. People with personality always endear themselves to me.

Originally Posted by tiger02

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Actually, several people have mentioned Federer, if you go back and read again...


Yeah I know, but the initial post made reference to the inferiority of current players. I encounter this illogical nostalgia a lot when people talk about golf and tennis.

About golf, really?

In regards to tennis, I imagine it's in part because of the low popularity of the men's game these days and the lack of charismatic rivalries involving American players.

Originally Posted by whoopee

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About golf, really?

In regards to tennis, I imagine it's in part because of the low popularity of the men's game these days and the lack of charismatic rivalries involving American players.

There's scores of extremely charasmatic players... Marat Safin is an excellent example.

About Golf though, I've had people tell me that Gary Player in his prime could take Tiger or Els (the RSA thing)...

I love Safin, just as I loved Goran. But they are not American. Where are the rivalries a la McEnroe-Borg? Neither Fed nor Nadal are American either, and Fed-Roddick or Fed-Blake is too one-sided. It's too bad, because the level of play, as any commentator and true fan would note, is higher than ever.

I think with tennis (and to an extent golf as well), the modern equipment is certainly a factor.

koji

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

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I think with tennis (and to an extent golf as well), the modern equipment is certainly a factor.

koji

Modern equipment and modern training and conditioning. I always think comparisons of great athletes from different eras has limited value. If Roger Federer were transported back to the '70s and early '80s to face Borg, Connors, and McEnroe, he'd be using wooden or aluminum small faced racquets and wouldn't be privy to the last 25 years of athletic training and conditioning knowledge (apparently, he would also have to wear REALLY tight tennis shorts). Same with transporting Borg et al forward. The idea that Federer or Sampras would blow Borg and McEnroe off the court (or vice versa) when all were in their primes and if all had equal access to equipment and conditioning doesn't seem logically correct to me. More likely, everyone would win some and lose some. Perhaps Federer will end up being the best of all time. Perhaps Sampras already is. However, without all things being equal, it's hard to make a head to head comparison amongst any of them.

Originally Posted by JBZ

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Modern equipment and modern training and conditioning. I always think comparisons of great athletes from different eras has limited value. If Roger Federer were transported back to the '70s and early '80s to face Borg, Connors, and McEnroe, he'd be using wooden or aluminum small faced racquets and wouldn't be privy to the last 25 years of athletic training and conditioning knowledge (apparently, he would also have to wear REALLY tight tennis shorts). Same with transporting Borg et al forward. The idea that Federer or Sampras would blow Borg and McEnroe off the court (or vice versa) when all were in their primes and if all had equal access to equipment and conditioning doesn't seem logically correct to me. More likely, everyone would win some and lose some. Perhaps Federer will end up being the best of all time. Perhaps Sampras already is. However, without all things being equal, it's hard to make a head to head comparison amongst any of them.

All excellent points; the most valid comparison point (for me at least), between athletes of different eras is how thoroughly they did or did not dominate their peers in their own timespan--Borg and McEnroe certainly did, as did Sampras.

koji

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

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I think with tennis (and to an extent golf as well), the modern equipment is certainly a factor.
koji
I think this is only true to a limited extent, but it's becoming more of a factor--many of the younger players even now honed their strokes on older, more flexible frames and still tend to prefer them for their consistency, complete with natural gut (which hasn't changed so very much in the last decade), often strung at tensions that exceed the manufacturer's specs and further dilute what little inherent power the frame might have had. This also tells you how hard the current players hit to generate the power that they do.

Some (particularly women) have switched to widebodies and this trend will likely continue, but I think the bigger factors are the more serious (and technologically advanced) conditioning regimes, better footwear technology, and faster courts.

If the measure of a player is how well they dominate their peers, then there is no one else like Federer. He dominates the game (at one time having something like 31 victories in finals out of 32 matches), at a time when the game is so unbelievably competitive.

His strokes are incredibly consistent. I've heard from more than one tennis player that Mac had some of the ugliest strokes ever. Back then there was no standard technique, so just as in golf, you can see some pretty wonky swings.

The answer lies in the song, and it doesn't go:

"I'll serve 'ya ass like Bjorn Borg / if your girl steps up / I'm smackin' the, er, ah, ... 'dorg'"

Originally Posted by Violinist

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If the measure of a player is how well they dominate their peers, then there is no one else like Federer. He dominates the game (at one time having something like 31 victories in finals out of 32 matches), at a time when the game is so unbelievably competitive.

His strokes are incredibly consistent. I've heard from more than one tennis player that Mac had some of the ugliest strokes ever. Back then there was no standard technique, so just as in golf, you can see some pretty wonky swings.

Which is why I think Federer is the greatest of all time.

koji

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

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Which is why I think Federer is the greatest of all time.

koji

Good, one other sane person here.

Originally Posted by Violinist

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Good, one other sane person here.

Sheesh, who are you, Federer's dad?