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Late Beethoven Thread - Page 3

post #31 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
This is for all your thoughts re: the late period words of Beethoven, defined as:

Cello Sonatas Op. 102, 1 & 2
Piano sonatas Op. 101, 106 (Hammerklavier), 109, 110 & 111
Bagatelles, Op. 119 & 126
Diabelli Variations, Op. 120
Missa Solemnis, Op. 123
Symphony No. 9, Op. 125*
String Quartet Op. 127, 130, 131, 132, & 135.


*Please keep all comments about the overexposed "Ode to Joy" to an absolute minimum, unless you have something original to say.

The highlighted pieces are some of my favorites but then again the string quartets are terrific.

This is my favorite performance of Opus 132: http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2811

I have seen the Fry Street Quartet in person and they are terrific. My friend Ray Kimber recorded this disc and it sound terrific.
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post #32 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophilia View Post
His late Sonatas are pinnacles, for me.

My buddy, Bob Silverman recently recorded the Diabellis. He gave us a private concert and lecture before the recording. I think you would have enjoyed it. A difficult work, but he explained it so beautifully. His playing is tremendous.

Try to hear Gunter Wand's Beethoven 9. An amazing recording. He brings out so much of the counterpoint that other famous recordings miss.

I just got the Amadeus Quartets on the 111 Years of DGG (7 Gigs/730 tracks) that iTunes Canada priced mistakenly for $9.99! Corrected to $119.99 later! The leader was a prick, but their playing is outstanding.

I believe Silverman did that on the Stereophile label with John Atkinson, no?

Atkinson played it at last year's RMAF as part of his presentation on music file compression and playback was Wavelength converters, Ayre preamp/amp, and Avalon Acoustic NP-2s.
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post #33 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by romafan View Post
A thread for my mother-in-law. I don't fully get the 'opus' thing. Have heard that the 'odd' symphonies are the good (famous?) ones. I like the morse code beginning of 5, and the story behind it (unless my dad was making it up). Amazing about the deafness, too...

* yes, i am a cretin. i cannot attend a classical concert or opera w/o

The 'opus' thing is just a way of systematically numbering a composer's works. The odd symphonies (3, 5, 9) and one even symphony (6) are the most famous. If you are interested in getting into Beet. I would start with 3.
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post #34 of 157
11/5/09 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenanyu View Post
The 'opus' thing is just a way of systematically numbering a composer's works. The odd symphonies (3, 5, 9) and one even symphony (6) are the most famous. If you are interested in getting into Beet. I would start with 3.

... _ !
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post #35 of 157
11/5/09 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
I keep wanting to argue with this, but keep coming up short. I do tend to play Richter's Hammerklavier more often than Pollini's, but I don't have all of Richter's Beethoven.

Any recommendations on the late string quartets?

The Budapest Quartet.
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post #36 of 157
11/5/09 at 3:06pm
I have a CD of a couple of sonatas. No. 14(?) Moonlight, & a couple of others (Pathetique?, etc.) which are nice for late listening on snowy nights.... (pretend it's a piano)

pianist is a biggie - pretty sure vlad h or alf brendel
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post #37 of 157
11/5/09 at 3:22pm
I love op. 109, 110, 111. The Grosse Fugue is delightfully weird, like he got in a time machine and came back with all these new ideas: The fugues in Missa Solemnis are just to die for. I'm listening to the Gardiner recording right now. --Andre
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post #38 of 157
11/5/09 at 5:16pm
Thread Starter 
For the late quartets, Lindsay.
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post #39 of 157
11/5/09 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
For the late quartets, Lindsay.

Good but the Fry Street Quartet will give them a nice run.
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post #40 of 157
11/5/09 at 5:54pm
Manton you have opened a real can of worms here.

I am not a huge fan of late Beethoven. Symphonies 5, 6 and 7 I love, but 9 I just cannot get into. Listened to the Norrington version again last week only cos I picked the CD by accident while driving... I just have the sense that he pushed the limits too much in the later works, including the late quartets (groan), and they seem not to hold together. I realise they hold together in "technical" terms, with the endless thematic and motivic fiddling, but musically I am not so persuaded. Maybe if his later works were shorter it would help They just seem to lose their way.

Mozart v Beethoven. Surprising how close late Mozart is to early/middle Beethoven in orchestal works. Piano sonatas of each are genius (Beethoven too hard for me). Violin sonatas of Beethoven much better than Mozart, and more fun to play. Not that familiar with Mozart quartets - some of these are a bit glib, but will listen further. I'd say Mozart is a bit taken for granted sometimes, whereas Beethoven is subject to endless masturbatory analysis spurred by this cult of the composer thing. Maybe because people think Mozart is "facile", and Beethoven "hard". Listening to Mozart afresh can be a real ear-opener.
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post #41 of 157
11/5/09 at 6:18pm
Whew! I saw the thread title and thought perhaps Manton was suggesting dear Mr. Beethoven had passed on. What a relief to know it is just about his more recent music.
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post #42 of 157
11/5/09 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
For the late Sonatas, there is only Pollini.
I respect Pollini's technique, but his playing just doesn't move me. I've always turned to Richter, Gulda, and Sofronitzky. Even some of Helene Grimaud's Beethoven is really, really good stuff. If I want more subdued Beethoven, I'll go with Gilels over Pollini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophilia View Post
Try to hear Gunter Wand's Beethoven 9. An amazing recording. He brings out so much of the counterpoint that other famous recordings miss.
Wand must have recorded the Ninth about 50 times. I've heard three of them, and they're all incredible, head and shoulders above Giulini or Karajan, which are the other two recordings I own. If you really wanna be blown away by Beethoven at its best, though, try Kleiber conducting the 5th symphony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutman View Post
I am not a huge fan of late Beethoven. Symphonies 5, 6 and 7 I love, but 9 I just cannot get into. Listened to the Norrington version again last week only cos I picked the CD by accident while driving
I know you picked it by accident, but there's the problem -- the Norrington recording is a POS. Is it the one with the London Classical Players? That's like basing your opinion of the "Rach 3" off David Helfgott's recording.
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post #43 of 157
11/5/09 at 9:39pm
Thread Starter 
Pollini is the only one who plays all the notes, or at least in whose playing you can hear all the notes.

I realize that the majority opinion of him is that he is a robot, but I don't care. I really hear Beethoven in Pollini, and that is what matters (to me).
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post #44 of 157
11/5/09 at 9:42pm
Thread Starter 
Hammerklavier, first movement:

Typical AB, AB' sonata form opening:

A Section -- B flat major section (opening themes); 1-44; 44 measures
B Section -- G major section (second groupd of themes); 45-125; 81 measures
*repeat*
A -- B flat major section (opening theme; identical); 44 measures
B' -- G major section (changed at the very end this time); 45-129; 85 measures

[[The above is about half the movement, timewise]]

C -- E flat major development section of main theme; sort of quasi-fugal; 130-192; 63 measures
D -- very short 8 measure interlude; C major (193-200)
E -- D major, picks up theme from B -- short section, only 12 measures (201-213)
F -- B major; recapitulates opening theme; also only 12 measures (214-226)
G -- Back to B flat major; restates first part of opening theme, then develops second part; lengthy quote from second part, still in B flat major formally, but chords modified with flats to change key sound; 39 measures (227-266)
H -- B minor, but a quote from the first (B flat major) theme; sounds rather sinister in this key; 6 measures (267-272)
I -- back again to B flat major; lengthy quites from the first G major section, but in this key; first quoted, then considerably developed; (273-405 [end]); 132 measures.

Ten key changes, and some of the most extraordinary choices imaginable. Look how short some of the sections are.
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post #45 of 157
11/5/09 at 9:45pm
i am playing the last mvmt of hammerklavier, such a terrible sounding song... cannot imagine anyone listening to it out of their own volition
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