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Late Beethoven Thread - Page 2

post #16 of 157
11/5/09 at 12:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post
I was trying to rile you up.

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post #17 of 157
11/5/09 at 12:55am
Thread Starter 
For the late Sonatas, there is only Pollini.
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post #18 of 157
11/5/09 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
For the late Sonatas, there is only Pollini.

Don't let Koji read that... he despises Pollini.
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post #19 of 157
11/5/09 at 12:59am
^^^

Have you heard Schnabel's late Sonatas?

Love his recordings.
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post #20 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:01am
You have to look at the context in which Beethoven and W.A. Mozart composed their music. To say one is better than the other is a very loaded statement. It cannot be denied that Beethoven is one of the best composers. If you listen to what other people were composing at that time, you will notice that he was obviously way ahead of his time. Still, it is undeniable that Mozart was also one of the greatest composers ever to have lived. Without Mozart, there would be no Beethoven. Beethoven regarded Mozart in the highest esteem. Listen to Mozart's symphonies 40 and 41 or his Piano Concerto #20. They kick ass.

However, for all intents and purposes, Beethoven fucking rocks and I loathe the day where I would not enjoy listening or playing his music.
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post #21 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:04am
Thread Starter 
The problem with the 4th movement of the 9th is not that it is bad, it is that is a let-down. It is not as good as it should be. It is frankly a reversion to the middle period style of "heroic" Beethoven.

Among the many glories of the late Beethoven is the progressive improvement from piece to piece and movement to movement. He just kept getting better. The Ninth gets progressively better as you go along, rising to that transcendent slow movement -- almost the greatest one he wrote (only the Cavatina of the 130 and the 4th of the 131 are truly better) -- and then you get this catchy, poppy choral piece. Few if any of the hallmarks of late period style are there.

The 131 is the greatest piece of music in any genre by anyone, ever.
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post #22 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicguy View Post
You have to look at the context in which Beethoven and W.A. Mozart composed their music. To say one is better than the other is a very loaded statement. It cannot be denied that Beethoven is one of the best composers. If you listen to what other people were composing at that time, you will notice that he was obviously way ahead of his time. Still, it is undeniable that Mozart was also one of the greatest composers ever to have lived. Without Mozart, there would be no Beethoven. Beethoven regarded Mozart in the highest esteem. Listen to Mozart's symphonies 40 and 41 or his Piano Concerto #20. They kick ass.

Mozarts biggest problem is that he died before romanticism came into being. Thus, Beethoven is credited for helping to create and spearhead a new genre of classical music, which ultimately assisted in his immortalization.
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post #23 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
This is for all your thoughts re: the late period words of Beethoven, defined as:

Cello Sonatas Op. 102, 1 & 2
Piano sonatas Op. 101, 106 (Hammerklavier), 109, 110 & 111
Bagatelles, Op. 119 & 126
Diabelli Variations, Op. 120
Missa Solemnis, Op. 123
Symphony No. 9, Op. 125*
String Quartet Op. 127, 130, 131, 132, & 135.


*Please keep all comments about the overexposed "Ode to Joy" to an absolute minimum, unless you have something original to say.

His late Sonatas are pinnacles, for me.

My buddy, Bob Silverman recently recorded the Diabellis. He gave us a private concert and lecture before the recording. I think you would have enjoyed it. A difficult work, but he explained it so beautifully. His playing is tremendous.

Try to hear Gunter Wand's Beethoven 9. An amazing recording. He brings out so much of the counterpoint that other famous recordings miss.

I just got the Amadeus Quartets on the 111 Years of DGG (7 Gigs/730 tracks) that iTunes Canada priced mistakenly for $9.99! Corrected to $119.99 later! The leader was a prick, but their playing is outstanding.
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post #24 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The problem with the 4th movement of the 9th is not that it is bad, it is that is a let-down. It is not as good as it should be. It is frankly a reversion to the middle period style of "heroic" Beethoven. Among the many glories of the late Beethoven is the progressive improvement from piece to piece and movement to movement. He just kept getting better. The Ninth gets progressively better as you go along, rising to that transcendent slow movement -- almost the greatest one he wrote (only the Cavatina of the 130 and the 4th of the 131 are truly better) -- and then you get this catchy, poppy choral piece. Few if any of the hallmarks of late period style are there. The 131 is the greatest piece of music in any genre by anyone, ever.
The Cavatina is probably the only piece of music that can drive me close to tears (the Adagio of Schubert's Quintet in C major is a distant second). One can almost feel Beethoven's longing at the end of his life, all of his love, his sorrow, his regrets compressed into one utterly perfect movement.
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post #25 of 157
11/5/09 at 4:53am
Moonlight Sonata is one of my favs.
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post #26 of 157
11/5/09 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The Ninth gets progressively better as you go along, rising to that transcendent slow movement -- almost the greatest one he wrote (only the Cavatina of the 130 and the 4th of the 131 are truly better) -- and then you get this catchy, poppy choral piece.

:hugemanatee
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post #27 of 157
11/5/09 at 12:36pm
Performing Op. 126 is one of my greatest joy on stage. The sonatas are demanding at any level of preparations (I haven't played all the late sonatas but have been playing a few for a long time) but the sublimated achievement of Op. 126 is one of the rarest thing experienced on stage for a pianist.
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post #28 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicguy View Post
You have to look at the context in which Beethoven and W.A. Mozart composed their music. To say one is better than the other is a very loaded statement. It cannot be denied that Beethoven is one of the best composers. If you listen to what other people were composing at that time, you will notice that he was obviously way ahead of his time. Still, it is undeniable that Mozart was also one of the greatest composers ever to have lived. Without Mozart, there would be no Beethoven. Beethoven regarded Mozart in the highest esteem. Listen to Mozart's symphonies 40 and 41 or his Piano Concerto #20. They kick ass.

Beat me to it, and better stated than I would have done (Mozart's 41st is one of my favorite pieces of music, overall). All I can add is that they were simply different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The problem with the 4th movement of the 9th is not that it is bad, it is that is a let-down. It is not as good as it should be. It is frankly a reversion to the middle period style of "heroic" Beethoven.

Among the many glories of the late Beethoven is the progressive improvement from piece to piece and movement to movement. He just kept getting better. The Ninth gets progressively better as you go along, rising to that transcendent slow movement -- almost the greatest one he wrote (only the Cavatina of the 130 and the 4th of the 131 are truly better) -- and then you get this catchy, poppy choral piece.

I honestly think that's the point. He set to music a fairly popular poem of the time (by F. Schiller, if I'm not mistaken), and he may well have been striving for mass/international appeal. Then again, he may just have gotten lost in a personal goal and not paid enough attention to the music itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post
The Cavatina is probably the only piece of music that can drive me close to tears (the Adagio of Schubert's Quintet in C major is a distant second).

Great one! Another of my favorites, if I may name something so popular, is the Largo of Vivaldi's Concerto for Lute in D (maj?).
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post #29 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
For the late Sonatas, there is only Pollini.

I keep wanting to argue with this, but keep coming up short. I do tend to play Richter's Hammerklavier more often than Pollini's, but I don't have all of Richter's Beethoven.

Any recommendations on the late string quartets?
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post #30 of 157
11/5/09 at 1:24pm
A thread for my mother-in-law. I don't fully get the 'opus' thing. Have heard that the 'odd' symphonies are the good (famous?) ones. I like the morse code beginning of 5, and the story behind it (unless my dad was making it up). Amazing about the deafness, too...

* yes, i am a cretin. i cannot attend a classical concert or opera w/o
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