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Late Beethoven Thread - Page 8

post #106 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagutcow View Post



Listen to that introduction. Pure Beethoven.

Thank you. I made it about half way through that. I'm afraid I have to stick to my blunderbuses on Hayden, with all due respect. He gives me diabetes.
post #107 of 157
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagutcow View Post
Watch out that you don't become Conne!

My favorite parts of that are the mini development sections right before the returns of the Adagio theme.

This is the greatest thing ever.
post #108 of 157
Weird. Last week I dug up my Lindsay discs to rip onto my new work computer.
post #109 of 157
Thread Starter 
The 3rd mvt of Op. 132 -- "Heiliger Dankgesang" -- may be the best thing Beethoven ever wrote.

The 131 is "greater" overall, 130 remains my favorite overall, but this movement is simply awesome. Better than the Cavatina and maybe better than the Great Fugue.
post #110 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The 3rd mvt of Op. 132 -- "Heiliger Dankgesang" -- may be the best thing Beethoven ever wrote.

The 131 is "greater" overall, 130 remains my favorite overall, but this movement is simply awesome. Better than the Cavatina and maybe better than the Great Fugue.

I'm as big a fan of "difficult" music as you're likely to find, but most of the Groβe Fuge seems to me like a bunch of counterpoint curiosities stitched together into a meandering, directionless slog. It doesn't even particularly work as a fugue (Op. 131 #1 is better in terms of pure fugual execution.)

In terms of slow movements, Op. 135 #3 > teh Cavatina. Those few measures after the return to the tonic major may be some of the most gut-wrenching ever written. The Heiliger Dankgesang is probably Beethoven's best slow movement, although of course the adagio in the ninth is no slouch either. Late Beethoven is really defined by the slow movements, IMO.

Best overall is probably C# min or A min, although F Maj has a lot to recommend itself.
post #111 of 157
Why is no one commenting on the Op. 106 Adagio? In the right hands it's sheer magic and its clear logic is a welcome counterpoint to the reckless leaps and bounds of the opening Allegro. Also, I sprung for the Pizarro late Sonatas (109, 110, and 111) and they're not quite all I hoped for, but Op. 111 opens with all the fire I wanted. May yet pick up the Richter in Leipzig since I like Richter.
post #112 of 157
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
Why is no one commenting on the Op. 106 Adagio? In the right hands it's sheer magic and its clear logic is a welcome counterpoint to the reckless leaps and bounds of the opening Allegro.

Also, I sprung for the Pizarro late Sonatas (109, 110, and 111) and they're not quite all I hoped for, but Op. 111 opens with all the fire I wanted. May yet pick up the Richter in Leipzig since I like Richter.

Because I haven't gotten around to it. But yes it is great.

I agree with Tagut that the slow movements are the glory of late B. 3rd of 9th, 2nd of 111, 3rd of 106, 4th of 131, Cavatina, etc.

But "Heiliger Dankgesang" is IMO the pinnacle. I don't know how I "missed" this. I have been listenting to these steadily since 1992 and somehow this never "hit" me until this week.
post #113 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The 3rd mvt of Op. 132 -- "Heiliger Dankgesang" -- may be the best thing Beethoven ever wrote.

The 131 is "greater" overall, 130 remains my favorite overall, but this movement is simply awesome. Better than the Cavatina and maybe better than the Great Fugue.

It's nice to see that someone that isn't a musicologist or a career musician appreciates the Grosso Fugue.

At the first performance, the audience demanded an encore of the Cavatina and not the Grosso Fugue.

The Cavatina recording the Buddhapest is one of the things they sent to space a long time ago in that probe for aliens to find us.
post #114 of 157
Thread Starter 
I totally disagree with tagut that it is disjointed.
post #115 of 157
Is anyone familiar with this book? I saw it alluded to in something else I was reading the other day.

post #116 of 157
Thread Starter 
No. Can't stand Adorno, so I doubt I would like it.
post #117 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagutcow View Post
I'm as big a fan of "difficult" music as you're likely to find, but most of the Groβe Fuge seems to me like a bunch of counterpoint curiosities stitched together into a meandering, directionless slog.

The Budapest makes it a much more coherent experience-- it is in music like this that their virtues considerably outweigh their deficits.
post #118 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Norrigton is a gimmick monger. Original metronome settings! Ooooh! It's really fast!

Blech. Sounds like a 33 played on 45.

Actually, Beethoven's metronome markings for the 9th work amazingly well-- except for the 2 misprints, which Norrington plays as printed. Among other small things, you'll note that when played at tempo, the string sextuplets at the very end of the 3rd movement are exactly as fast as the ones a the opening of the 1st. A little cloud passing over the sun as the final benediction arrives. And while I haven't taken a poll, it's my impression that most conductors play the quotes from the first 3 more or less in tempo in the 4th, even if they mangled things earlier on.

I don't know what went wrong with Norrington's recordings. He did a whole series of things in Boston that were far better-- with the Boston Early Music Festival and the BSO. Turns out the BSO musicians didn't like him, but they sounded great when he was onstage. At the BEMF, he did a great Idomeneo, and a Haydn Seasons that was truly remarkable. I also heard/saw a fantastic demo he did with BEMF of classical minuets with dancers that induced me to buy the LCP discs of Haydn symphonies-- which turned out to be pretty mediocre.
post #119 of 157
Thread Starter 
I am still searching for the ultimate 9th. My go to is Karajan '77. I was into Gardiner for a while but I later really developed a dislike for it. Abbado is supposed to be great.

I don't think I have ever heard the 3rd mvt done "right." I have a version in my head from reading it and listening to others that I don't think exists IRL.
post #120 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SField View Post
(...)

The Cavatina recording the Buddhapest is one of the things they sent to space a long time ago in that probe for aliens to find us.

Oh, jeez. Imagine being the alien society that hears the Cavatina and then comes to earth to find music dominated by Katy Perry and hip-hop. Whoops, turn around - wrong planet!
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