or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › Good Suggestion for a First Handgun
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Good Suggestion for a First Handgun - Page 4

post #46 of 76
interesting, a lot of ways to look at it. I have very little revolver experience - most of my experience is with assult rifles, and with autoloading handguns. I was thinking that the autoloader has more parts, dealing with the magazine etc., where as the revolver is a more simple piece of machinery.
post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
interesting, a lot of ways to look at it. I have very little revolver experience - most of my experience is with assult rifles, and with autoloading handguns. I was thinking that the autoloader has more parts, dealing with the magazine etc., where as the revolver is a more simple piece of machinery.
I think from a maintenance standpoint you're right, but I was looking at it from a shooting/handling perspective.
post #48 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Appleby
I find automatics "easier" to shoot than revolvers, though I'm not quite sure what I mean by that. I think with autos, there are more things that you should remember, but with revolvers there are more things that you have to remember. For example, a DA revolver with make you very concious of your hammer position, and thus ingrain thinking about the safety state of your weapon.

I don't understand. If you don't manually cock the hammer on a DA revolver, you never have to worry about the position of the hammer. It is down, period. IIRC, that is actually one of the "selling points" that was used to transition law enforcement personnel from revolvers to DAO semiautomatic pistols--the fact that every pull of the trigger on a DAO has the same feel.

The first time I had a feed stoppage on a semiauto, I was momentarily stumped on how to proceed, despite having been taught and practiced clearing procedures. That was at a range under leisure conditions, not in a stress situation where it counted. Revolvers don't have those issues, and I think the KISS principle says that revolvers may be preferable for new or infrequent shooters who want a reliable weapon.
post #49 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by retronotmetro
I don't understand. If you don't manually cock the hammer on a DA revolver, you never have to worry about the position of the hammer. It is down, period. IIRC, that is actually one of the "selling points" that was used to transition law enforcement personnel from revolvers to DAO semiautomatic pistols--the fact that every pull of the trigger on a DAO has the same feel.

This is what I'm saying. You'll feel the hammer position in each trigger pull, as opposed to a DAO auto, where you won't notice it. Thus, you'll think about whether or not the hammer is cocked, as opposed to just flipping the safety on or off. I just think that, for training purposes, it makes you more concious of the your weapon and its state, which is always a good thing.
post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by retronotmetro
I don't understand. If you don't manually cock the hammer on a DA revolver, you never have to worry about the position of the hammer. It is down, period. IIRC, that is actually one of the "selling points" that was used to transition law enforcement personnel from revolvers to DAO semiautomatic pistols--the fact that every pull of the trigger on a DAO has the same feel.

The first time I had a feed stoppage on a semiauto, I was momentarily stumped on how to proceed, despite having been taught and practiced clearing procedures. That was at a range under leisure conditions, not in a stress situation where it counted. Revolvers don't have those issues, and I think the KISS principle says that revolvers may be preferable for new or infrequent shooters who want a reliable weapon.


actually these are my points - if I want to learn about a new (to me) technology, I would try to learn with the most complex example - in my mind, a large part of shooting is clearing feed stoppages. if you learn on an autoloader, you have to understand the safty, you have to learn about feed stoppages, you have to think about these things. if, later on, you then go to a revolver, you will have learned more than you need to know, it will then be simple.
post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
actually these are my points - if I want to learn about a new (to me) technology, I would try to learn with the most complex example - in my mind, a large part of shooting is clearing feed stoppages. if you learn on an autoloader, you have to understand the safty, you have to learn about feed stoppages, you have to think about these things. if, later on, you then go to a revolver, you will have learned more than you need to know, it will then be simple.
I guess I'm thinking more in safety terms- to me, a revolver requires more attention. With an automatic, you pop in the mag, hit the slide release, bang bang bang, eject, rinse, and repeat. With an FTF or an FTE, just rack the slide a bit and keep going.

With a revolver, on the other hand, each shot you have to choose: DA or SA? I dunno, to me revolvers just seem more contemplative and revolvers more natural.

ED: Upon rereading, your point makes alot of sense. I suppose I'm just biased because automatics are more reflexive to me, for whatever reason.
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Appleby
I guess I'm thinking more in safety terms- to me, a revolver requires more attention. With an automatic, you pop in the mag, hit the slide release, bang bang bang, eject, rinse, and repeat. With an FTF or an FTE, just rack the slide a bit and keep going.

With a revolver, on the other hand, each shot you have to choose: DA or SA? I dunno, to me revolvers just seem more contemplative and revolvers more natural.

ED: Upon rereading, your point makes alot of sense. I suppose I'm just biased because automatics are more reflexive to me, for whatever reason.

this is something that I don't feel as strongly about, compared to some gun issues. I have never trained somebody in using a handgun, and I have relativly little expereince with a revolver, so I am just bouncing my ideas around.

btw - I don't read any firearm literature, and I learned to shoot in another language - so I don't understand any of the abreviations.
post #53 of 76
may i remind gun owners here to always invest in a good gun case and do lock it and keep it away from children. guns, imo, should never be brought out unless you're going to use it or having it cleaned and maintained.
post #54 of 76
If he's planning on getting it for home defense, that's pretty terrible advice. Though I believe he's still in college/university, which makes most of this a non issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
btw - I don't read any firearm literature, and I learned to shoot in another language - so I don't understand any of the abreviations.
DA: Double Action SA: Single Action FTF: Failure to Fire FTE: Failure to Extract
post #55 of 76
College is dangerous.

You need a flamethrower.
post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
LS - welcome aboard.

I like the idea of the .357 revolver.


what is your feeling on this - for learning purposes, I have the feeling that a semi-automatic is better, to some extent in the same way it is better to learn to drive with a shift and then go to automatic when you are more experienced. the auto-loader will require one to learn more than a revolver.

what are your thoughts?

Hi Globetrotter,

Situatons vary, but if I am starting someone out with handguns, I like to start with a .22 semi auto. I prefer to use my Smith & Wesson 422 because is is closer to the big autos like the 1911 or Glock or Sig than is the Ruger. It is single action and, once "set up," less confusing and distracting than a revolver to shoot. I am there to help address any failures.

But if I am introducing someone to handguns, I usually bring a few variations and they want to try something else after about 50 rounds of .22. That's fine. It's not my intention to create an expert with one trip to the range! But the principles they learn with the .22 auto -- sight alignment, trigger control, and safety -- transition to all other handguns. If you start them with a revolver, there is a secondary, distracting learning curve when they pick up the automatic.

For those who simply want a firearm for defense and don't intend to train and shoot a lot, I cannot recommend an auto. There is just too much that can and does go wrong and you have to understand it thoroughly and be ready to keep it running under stress and in the dark. My wife used to shoot a lot and during that time I provided her with a compact 9mm semi-auto. One day, I realized she had not been shooting for more than a year. I replaced it with a revolver. I know it will work ("five for sure") and that she will remember how to operate it.

All revolvers work the same -- point and click. All semi autos are a little different. There are "hammerless," exposed hammer, internal hammer, single action, double action, double action only, and a variety of manual safety configurations. Unless you are very experienced, you need to train on each one you might expect to shoot. Learn to shoot one revolver, you can pretty much shoot any revolver.
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Ship
Hi Globetrotter,

Situatons vary, but if I am starting someone out with handguns, I like to start with a .22 semi auto. I prefer to use my Smith & Wesson 422 because is is closer to the big autos like the 1911 or Glock or Sig than is the Ruger. It is single action and, once "set up," less confusing and distracting than a revolver to shoot. I am there to help address any failures.

But if I am introducing someone to handguns, I usually bring a few variations and they want to try something else after about 50 rounds of .22. That's fine. It's not my intention to create an expert with one trip to the range! But the principles they learn with the .22 auto -- sight alignment, trigger control, and safety -- transition to all other handguns. If you start them with a revolver, there is a secondary, distracting learning curve when they pick up the automatic.

For those who simply want a firearm for defense and don't intend to train and shoot a lot, I cannot recommend an auto. There is just too much that can and does go wrong and you have to understand it thoroughly and be ready to keep it running under stress and in the dark. My wife used to shoot a lot and during that time I provided her with a compact 9mm semi-auto. One day, I realized she had not been shooting for more than a year. I replaced it with a revolver. I know it will work ("five for sure") and that she will remember how to operate it.

All revolvers work the same -- point and click. All semi autos are a little different. There are "hammerless," exposed hammer, internal hammer, single action, double action, double action only, and a variety of manual safety configurations. Unless you are very experienced, you need to train on each one you might expect to shoot. Learn to shoot one revolver, you can pretty much shoot any revolver.


thanks LS - that would be pretty much exactly my feeling. I wasn't sure if the origional poster wanted this for learning purposes, or for defence. we have discussed, in depth, my opinion about keeping a handgun for defence.


If you don't mind, Liberty Ship, let me introduce you to the gang. People, I do not know that much about LS, but from my understanding he spends a good part of his time teaching novices how to use firearm, and has years of experience in the proper use of handguns.
post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa
If he's planning on getting it for home defense, that's pretty terrible advice. Though I believe he's still in college/university, which makes most of this a non issue.


DA: Double Action
SA: Single Action
FTF: Failure to Fire
FTE: Failure to Extract


thanks
post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidicboy
may i remind gun owners here to always invest in a good gun case and do lock it and keep it away from children. guns, imo, should never be brought out unless you're going to use it or having it cleaned and maintained.

I second that. as a matter of fact, and I know that many, including LS, will disagree with me, if you have never fired a firearm, and you are intending to use it primarily for self defence, and you do not ahve a specific threat threatening your life (say you are sleeping with the ex-gilrfriend of a gang member) I would not count on a firearm for self defence. I, myself, keep a nightstick and a canister of gas - I don't have to worry about locking them up, and they will answer pretty much any threat that I can anticipate rationally. I (and, again, here my experiece differs from LS) believe that it is too much to expect from a novice to be able to operate a firearm correctly in time of need.

in any event, if you are buying a gun, take into account the cost of a good gun safe.
post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
LS - welcome aboard.

I like the idea of the .357 revolver.


what is your feeling on this - for learning purposes, I have the feeling that a semi-automatic is better, to some extent in the same way it is better to learn to drive with a shift and then go to automatic when you are more experienced. the auto-loader will require one to learn more than a revolver.

what are your thoughts?


Hi Globetrotter,

Situatons vary, but if I am starting someone out with handguns, I like to start with a .22 semi auto. I prefer to use my Smith & Wesson 422 because is is closer in configurtion to the big autos like the 1911 or Glock or Sig than is the Ruger. It is single action with an internal hammer and, once "set up," less confusing and distracting than a revolver to shoot. I am there to help address any failures.

But if I am introducing someone to handguns, I usually bring a few variations and they usually want to try something else after about 50 rounds of .22. That's fine. It's not my intention to create an expert with one trip to the range! But the principles they learn with the .22 auto -- sight alignment, trigger control, and safety -- transition to all other handguns. If you start them with a revolver, there is a secondary, distracting learning curve when they pick up the automatic.

For those who simply want a firearm for defense and don't intend to train and shoot a lot and regularly and continuously, I cannot recommend an auto. There is just too much that can and does go wrong and you have to understand it thoroughly and be ready to keep it running under stress and in the dark. My wife used to shoot a lot and during that time I provided her with a compact 9mm semi-auto. One day, I realized she had not been shooting for more than a year. I replaced it with a revolver. I know it will work ("five for sure") and that she will remember how to operate it. Also, revolvers are safer. Their readiness condition is verifiable with a quick glance. Most semi-auto accidents happen over confusion over whether or not it is truly unloaded.

All revolvers work the same -- point and click. All semi autos are a little different. There are "hammerless," exposed hammer, internal hammer, single action, double action, double action only, and a variety of manual safety configurations. Unless you are very experienced, you need to train on each one you might expect to shoot. Then there is the fact that you have to understand and maintain two systems: the pistol and the magazine, and in the event of failure, figure out which caused the problem. Learn to shoot one revolver, you can pretty much shoot any revolver.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Chat
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › Good Suggestion for a First Handgun