Saddleback v. M&W Traveler

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

As far as being banned from different forums, that's the first I've heard of this. All I can say is that people who love our company really love our company! There are a lot of postings around the web by Saddleback owners who promote our bags. Unfortunately it seems like there may be some over-zealous ones as well. I apologize if this has caused anyone to lose trust in the honesty and integrity of Saddleback. And if we find out it was an employee of our company, then we will take appropriate action.

Oh, come on now. Your post started out thoughtful and well intentioned, and then you had to go and deny the sockpuppetry. Just own up to it, apologize for it, and offer to start fresh and move forward. You can't be transparent about certain things and then deny others. Mea culpas don't work that way. If you want to rebuild trust with consumers, you need to admit to everything and then try to build a new beginning.

Those "over-zealous" Saddleback reviews were quite obviously coming from Saddleback itself, and to continue denying it is comical. Just admit it and apologize while you still have some dignity and good will left.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Click to expand...

Oh, come on now. Your post started out thoughtful and well intentioned, and then you had to go and deny the sockpuppetry. Just own up to it, apologize for it, and offer to start fresh and move forward. You can't be transparent about certain things and then deny others. Mea culpas don't work that way. If you want to rebuild trust with consumers, you need to admit to everything and then try to build a new beginning.

Those "over-zealous" Saddleback reviews were quite obviously coming from Saddleback itself, and to continue denying it is comical. Just admit it and apologize while you still have some dignity and good will left.

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Click to expand...

I actually really like Saddleback. As for it working for your job, I guess it depends on whether you're trying to fit in or stand out.

Exactly! While I was going through school at Wheaton College, I interviewed to intern at a business consultancy firm. I arrived in a suit and tie with my Saddleback chestnut briefcase at the time and sat down with the CEO. The first thing he asked me was about my bag and how much he liked it. Needless to say the rest of the interview was a piece of cake after that.

We heard countless stories from people who have brought their bags into professional arenas with incredible results. One Saddleback owner works for DKNY and was in a board meeting with their bag. Donna Karan was leading the meeting and stopped in the middle of her presentation to ask about the bag.

Another Saddleback owner who is a lawyer brought his briefcase to court right after he bought it. The judge asked to see him in his chambers after court was adjourned just to ask about his bag!

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Click to expand...

Oh, come on now. Your post started out thoughtful and well intentioned, and then you had to go and deny the sockpuppetry. Just own up to it, apologize for it, and offer to start fresh and move forward. You can't be transparent about certain things and then deny others. Mea culpas don't work that way. If you want to rebuild trust with consumers, you need to admit to everything and then try to build a new beginning.

Those "over-zealous" Saddleback reviews were quite obviously coming from Saddleback itself, and to continue denying it is comical. Just admit it and apologize while you still have some dignity and good will left.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to reply. All I can say is that I'm not lying to you and those pro Saddleback posts on the forum thread you posted we're not from any of our employees. I actually called and asked around to make sure. You can call me a liar if you want to but it wasn't from us. Feel free "Arrogant Bastard" to send me a private message because I'd love to chat with you via phone more about it.

Just as a quick after thought to M&W Traveler's criticism about our pigskin lining. They inferred that our pigskin lining was lined with a cheap polyurethane coating. It's not and you can tell by the pattern that it's real, quality pigskin. Polyurethane doesn't have that type of consistent pattern.

Also, "Arrogant Bastard" do you work for a leather company?

After having had a chance to field test the Saddleback, I'm fairly happy with it. I've used the briefcase to carry my books around school and for weekend trips and have no real complaints. I've found the bag to be fairly resilient and I don't mind letting the bag get scratched/bumped/kicked/thrown. I also love the fact the two side buckles can double as two casual size 36 belts (This may explain teh middle strap's purpose as a permanent buckle). Personally, I think the Saddleback is better geared towards non-business trips, weekend trips and outdoor professions where your bag is more than likely to get scratched up or where flexilbility is needed. However, one flaw I consider to be almost inexcusable is the lack of a pen/pencil holder. I would love for the Saddleback bags to have at least one pen/pencil holder in the interior because I think that regardless of what you plan to do, you may need a writing utensil at one point. Solely based on looking at the M&W website, I think their briefcase may perform better and be more readily accepted in the business and professional community than the Saddleback briefcase. One thing I noticed when I used the Saddleback leather briefcase in a professional setting during my internship was that the bag was a little too durable and rugged for the job. I had trouble manuevering through professional crowds as well as finding a space large enough to contain the strap and briefcase. Looking back, I could've probably taken off the strap but that meant having to carry the briefcase by hand. The M&W looks more economical in terms of the space it takes up. I think the situation here is a matter of specialization vs generalization. The Saddleback's greatest strength is that it's flexible while the M&W serves a business traveler's daily needs better (Especially with those pen holders. Hint, hint Saddleback). Trying to compare the two on the same merits in regards to function would probably do both a disservice. I wouldn't try taking the M&W camping even though I would probably choose it over the Saddleback when meeting with an important client in an urban business setting. In short, if you're looking for a bag that can perform more than one role, I would recommend the Saddleback. I've found the bag to easily switch between being a carry-on bag and a book bag. I have had ZERO regrets about buying the Saddleback briefcase. However, if you only plan to get a briefcase for work and use it for nothing else, go with M&W since the bag appears to be geared towards that specific market (I'm assuming based on the M&W owner's background.). Although, if Saddleback manages to place a pen holder or two somewhere without compromising the quality, I may just recommend the Saddleback briefcase.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to reply. All I can say is that I'm not lying to you and those pro Saddleback posts on the forum thread you posted we're not from any of our employees. I actually called and asked around to make sure. You can call me a liar if you want to but it wasn't from us. Feel free "Arrogant Bastard" to send me a private message because I'd love to chat with you via phone more about it.
I don't know what to tell you, then. It speaks volumes about the way you guys do business that you'd continue to deny your shady sales tactics on this forum and others.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

Also, "Arrogant Bastard" do you work for a leather company?
Unless "leather company" is some hot new slang for banking, then no. Sorry. And seriously? Are you really trying to turn the shill thing around on me? LOL. "We don't shill on message boards...maybe, umm, you're the shill!" Priceless. At any rate, keep it up. It's your brand image to do with as you see fit.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Click to expand...

I don't know what to tell you, then. It speaks volumes about the way you guys do business that you'd continue to deny your shady sales tactics on this forum and others.



Unless "leather company" is some hot new slang for banking, then no. Sorry. And seriously? Are you really trying to turn the shill thing around on me? LOL. "We don't shill on message boards...maybe, umm, you're the shill!" Priceless. At any rate, keep it up. It's your brand image to do with as you see fit.

I don't think we are going to get much further here about this. Send me a private message and I'll give you a call. I'd love to chat with you over the phone more about it.

Thanks!
Jonathan

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

Just as a quick after thought to M&W Traveler's criticism about our pigskin lining. They inferred that our pigskin lining was lined with a cheap polyurethane coating. It's not and you can tell by the pattern that it's real, quality pigskin. Polyurethane doesn't have that type of consistent pattern.

Also, "Arrogant Bastard" do you work for a leather company?

Since very few of us are leather workers or luggage makers could you possibly give us a visual example of polyurethane coating vs real pigskin? I think a picture might help us understand better.

It's also very easy to generalize and say we use "shady sales tactics on this forum and others". Besides the one thread that was posted here where you think we were secretly posting replies, I haven't seen any other examples. Which forums are you talking about? Please show us some more examples and we can explore whether or not it's justified to accuse Saddleback of "sockpuppetry". By the way, we are clearly labeled an "affiliate vendor" on this forum. We are here to discuss our products with Style Forum members.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Click to expand...

I don't know what to tell you, then. It speaks volumes about the way you guys do business that you'd continue to deny your shady sales tactics on this forum and others.



Unless "leather company" is some hot new slang for banking, then no. Sorry. And seriously? Are you really trying to turn the shill thing around on me? LOL. "We don't shill on message boards...maybe, umm, you're the shill!" Priceless. At any rate, keep it up. It's your brand image to do with as you see fit.
I was pulling for you before I read this.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

It's also very easy to generalize and say we use "shady sales tactics on this forum and others". Besides the one thread that was posted here where you think we were secretly posting replies, I haven't seen any other examples. Which forums are you talking about? Please show us some more examples and we can explore whether or not it's justified to accuse Saddleback of "sockpuppetry". By the way, we are clearly labeled an "affiliate vendor" on this forum. We are here to discuss our products with Style Forum members.

So you deny that this banned shill was you?

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...lue#post543998

The profile for "keeperoftheblue" even matches your self-description on this thread. Wowzers.

Look, man. It's one thing to be an affiliate vendor and to be honest and upfront about selling stuff. It's quite another to pose as regular people and sing the praises of your own products in a shady attempt to drum up interest. That's what we mean by shilling. It's dishonest, it's cheesy, and it's readily apparent.

Just stop now while you still can. If you really want people to dig up every single instance of your past shilling and throw it in your face, we'll happily oblige you. So why don't you think carefully before continuing in your campaign of denial? Either admit you've shilled in the past or don't; I don't really care. But stop denying it. It makes you and your company look worse.

If your products are truly as wonderful as you say they are, then let the quality speak for itself. Let real people discuss the merits of Saddleback bags. Stop using sockpuppets, and stop denying that you have used them before.

Yes, that was my brother. I apologize on behalf of my brother. I didn't know about that thread. He had told me he posted on a forum a few years ago once and was banned but he couldn't remember what forum he posted on. Now we know. That happened once, but it hasn't happened since. It was at a time when the company was just starting and he learned his lesson the hard way.

I'm sorry, I was wrong, that was an instance where we were in the wrong. But to say we make a habit of doing that sort of thing just because it happened once over two years ago is wrong also.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Click to expand...

So you deny that this banned shill was you?

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...lue#post543998

The profile for "keeperoftheblue" even matches your self-description on this thread. Wowzers.

Look, man. It's one thing to be an affiliate vendor and to be honest and upfront about selling stuff. It's quite another to pose as regular people and sing the praises of your own products in a shady attempt to drum up interest. That's what we mean by shilling. It's dishonest, it's cheesy, and it's readily apparent.

Just stop now while you still can. If you really want people to dig up every single instance of your past shilling and throw it in your face, we'll happily oblige you. So why don't you think carefully before continuing in your campaign of denial? Either admit you've shilled in the past or don't; I don't really care. But stop denying it. It makes you and your company look worse.

If your products are truly as wonderful as you say they are, then let the quality speak for itself. Let real people discuss the merits of Saddleback bags. Stop using sockpuppets, and stop denying that you have used them before.

This thread is excellent. Let's keep this going.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

Click to expand...

Yes, that was my brother. I apologize on behalf of my brother. I didn't know about that thread. He had told me he posted on a forum a few years ago once and was banned but he couldn't remember what forum he posted on. Now we know. That happened once, but it hasn't happened since. It was at a time when the company was just starting and he learned his lesson the hard way. I'm sorry, I was wrong, that was an instance where we were in the wrong. But to say we make a habit of doing that sort of thing just because it happened once over two years ago is wrong also.
The old "that was my brother" routine is just about the oldest trick in the internet book. Nice try. But it's a step in the right direction, nonetheless, so I'll give you a sliver of credit for it. As for the "it happened once" thing, have you forgotten so soon about the AAAC thread we linked a few pages back? Some of those shills were less than a couple months old. Much more recent than "two years ago," and much more frequent than "once." Please stop embarrassing yourself. It's getting to the point where I am almost feeling sorry for you. I have a great deal of respect for the American entrepreneur, and I know how hard it is to start a company and get it off the ground. That's why it pains me to keep having to do this. But the more you keep denying it, the more you're winning me over to the insurgency, so to speak. At first I thought I'd point out your shilling, and you'd quickly fess up and move on. But now that you're denying it again and again, I feel a sense of purpose behind my posts. I feel as if I'm on a mission to cut this crap. I feel inspired. I feel as if the final words of my dying father just before he placed me on a rocketship from Krypton and sent me to Earth were "My only son, your mission in life is to protect consumers from bullsh-- like this." Once again, I'm offering you a lifeline here: will you admit you've used sockpuppets on more than one occasion, apologize for it, and start anew with your customers? Or will you persist in denying it? The choice is yours.