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Alligator / Crocodile Shoes - Page 34

post #496 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

Actually, they are the last of the fine US made American Alligator shoes. Foot Joy sold these as a golf shoe model until maybe 10 years ago (may have been more recent). While pretty good shoes, they are (I believe) Goodyear welted and I cannot say wether it is hand-stitched or not. Foot Joy made an Alligator shoe in the 1940's that was handwelted hand-stitched and had unbelievable skins. I'll put up some pics of a model soon.

Strange that they would "piece" the saddle.
post #497 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Strange that they would "piece" the saddle.

I see that in so many Reptile shoes. In the Vintage models I have seen that use a single piece of leather, the spot at the bottom/ middle is often cracked or torn thru (regardless of condition of the rest of the shoe). You would know much better than me, but is that a spot of potential weakness?
post #498 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

I see that in so many Reptile shoes. In the Vintage models I have seen that use a single piece of leather, the spot at the bottom/ middle is often cracked or torn thru (regardless of condition of the rest of the shoe). You would know much better than me, but is that a spot of potential weakness?

Lizard maybe. But there's no reason to piece on alligator unless you're just using pieces from the cutting room floor. As for weakness, there's roughly a half inch of clearance between the bottom of the facings and the bottom of the saddle. If there is a hand stitch at the bottom of the facings...and if the shoes fit...there should be no particular weakness there that isn't mitigated by that stitch.

That said, the old bombe' alligator was a dry tannage to begin with and then they "polished" it using friction...which generates heat.
post #499 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Lizard maybe. But there's no reason to piece on alligator unless you're just using pieces from the cutting room floor. As for weakness, there's roughly a half inch of clearance between the bottom of the facings and the bottom of the saddle. If there is a hand stitch at the bottom of the facings...and if the shoes fit...there should be no particular weakness there that isn't mitigated by that stitch.

That said, the old bombe' alligator was a dry tannage to begin with and then they "polished" it using friction...which generates heat.

Great info... as usual! Thanks.
post #500 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Lizard maybe. But there's no reason to piece on alligator unless you're just using pieces from the cutting room floor. As for weakness, there's roughly a half inch of clearance between the bottom of the facings and the bottom of the saddle. If there is a hand stitch at the bottom of the facings...and if the shoes fit...there should be no particular weakness there that isn't mitigated by that stitch.

That said, the old bombe' alligator was a dry tannage to begin with and then they "polished" it using friction...which generates heat.

Mauri has made millions "piecing" together alligator footwear eek.gif
post #501 of 918
Edward Green Westminster, Top Drawer Alligator


post #502 of 918

"Actually, they are the last of the fine US made American Alligator shoes. Foot Joy sold these as a golf shoe model until maybe 10 years ago (may have been more recent). While pretty good shoes, they are (I believe) Goodyear welted and I cannot say wether it is hand-stitched or not. Foot Joy made an Alligator shoe in the 1940's that was handwelted hand-stitched and had unbelievable skins. I'll put up some pics of a model soon."

 

The FootJoy plant in Brockton, MA closed in 2008. As late as 2007 you could still get these made to order shoes at a cost of $2750 which I find very reasonable. They are Goodyears, not hand-lasted nor hand-stiched, but nice workmanship all round and the skins are the thickest that I've seen at 1.8-2.0 mm.      

post #503 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr monty View Post

Mauri has made millions "piecing" together alligator footwear eek.gif

I don't doubt that...at this point in the game it is hard to surprise or disgust me when it comes to manufacturers. My point was that even the smallest alligator skins are large enough for most styles to be made without weakening or cheapening the shoe.

There is no logical reason to piece a saddle unless you feel the need to utilize scraps...to the detriment if the product.

Even the monk strap pictured above would have looked more coherent and elegant if the vamp had been one piece.
post #504 of 918

love it! especially when you can customize it yourself! 

post #505 of 918

wow nice looking shoes! 

post #506 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr monty View Post

Mauri has made millions "piecing" together alligator footwear eek.gif

lousy pieces as well!
post #507 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't doubt that...at this point in the game it is hard to surprise or disgust me when it comes to manufacturers. My point was that even the smallest alligator skins are large enough for most styles to be made without weakening or cheapening the shoe.

There is no logical reason to piece a saddle unless you feel the need to utilize scraps...to the detriment if the product.

Even the monk strap pictured above would have looked more coherent and elegant if the vamp had been one piece.

I never understood the Reptile on Reptile captoe. It is impossible to match correctly, and even harder to match to the other shoe. I prefer reptile captoes on suedes and calf vamp shoes.
post #508 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

I never understood the Reptile on Reptile captoe. It is impossible to match correctly, and even harder to match to the other shoe. I prefer reptile captoes on suedes and calf vamp shoes.

You took the words right out of my mouth. If you are going all one type of skin and same color then the only resonable approach is the fewest pieces possible and the fewest visible seems. The showcase should be the skin and last shape in that case. You can really see this in the EG above where the captoe seems looks totally off as they appear to merge with the tile interstices on and off.
post #509 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonoft View Post


The FootJoy plant in Brockton, MA closed in 2008. As late as 2007 you could still get these made to order shoes at a cost of $2750 which I find very reasonable. They are Goodyears, not hand-lasted nor hand-stiched, but nice workmanship all round and the skins are the thickest that I've seen at 1.8-2.0 mm.      

Honestly, I couldn't disagree more. Since Foot Joy is no more, I will break my own rule and offer a little different perspective. Not to diss the shoes but simply to point out some aspects that may have been overlooked by the casual observer.

First, I have already mentioned that piecing the saddle is poor practice and particularly in the case of alligator there is no logical reason for it.

Second, the stitching on the lateral side of the saddle on the right foot...at the bottom of the saddle... is sloppy. It doesn't even meet the stitching on the medial side of the saddle. Part of this is down to the fact that the saddle is pieced. But the gimping doesn't match or align either.

The left shoe is better, but still clumsy.

The facings and topline are bound and not done with much finesse, in my opinion. Probably would have looked more refined with a bead.

Third, the quarters and tongue look to be cut from the tail--which is, in most quality shops, considered marginal or even offal.

Fourth, thickness is not the be-all and end all. Esp. in bombe' alligator where the leather tends to be semi-rigid when compared to something like calf. That said, and noting that I don't have a leather gauge handy, I suspect most contemporary alligator is running around 1.4mm or 3.5 ounce--comparable to, or maybe a tidge heavy, relative to a man's calfskin shoe. But I don't know how you would measure that thickness especially on a cut and bound shoe. If measured at the tongue I would expect the leather on the tail to be thicker.

Fifth, I think eyelets are a sure indicator of a lower end shoe. Simply because eyelets are not needed if the shoe is made properly. And alligator is a dense leather so there's even less need.

Finally I agree with Isshi, piecing reptile is aesthetic travesty and is usually done only to get every last penny out of a hide. Nothing wrong with economy as long as that's not the only consideration. What makes lizard and alligator so appealing...to those who like it...is the unique pattern created by the tiles. A pattern that naturally and gracefully blends from large to small, square to round. Breaking up that pattern more than is necessary to create a shoe style leaves the end result looking like it was cut from three different hides rather than one; or as if it were the remnants of three different shoes stitched together by an itinerant cobbler.

Much of this is admittedly personal opinion...although based on experience and some uniquely intimate knowledge of both shoemaking and alligator. I offer it simply to share some insights from someone who is looking at these shoes with an uncommon eye.

--
Edited by DWFII - 3/11/13 at 4:02pm
post #510 of 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

lousy pieces as well!

They dominated the urban market for over 30 years and they were not cheap (pricewise). They started selling shoes made from alligator tails and eyes. And were still over $1K for many styles.
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