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Derek Jeter, best shortstop of all time. - Page 3

post #31 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:10pm
The 5 hottest Short Stops of all time are: Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan & Cal.

Also, Jeter puts up numbers playing for the New York Yankees, which is automatically harder than playing for any other team in Major League Baseball.
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post #32 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:11pm
Wagner. ARod can make a case, but the era's are completely different, and Wagner was completely dominant in all facets of the game.
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post #33 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:12pm
I don't think he's even the best shortshop on the current Yankee team. A-Rod is a better shortshop. A-Rod isn't as clutch or as classy as Jeter, but he is a better shortstop.
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post #34 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiteaboy View Post
Larkin was worth 68.8 WAR over his career; Jeter's been worth a little less thus far. Barring injury, Jeter will probably be clearly better when his career is done, but it's a lot closer than you seem to think.

regular season against regular season, sure it probably is close.. What about post-season play ? I'd say Larkin is in my top 5 overall SS of all time...I can def agree to that..

Jeter's play in the post-season is exactly what it is, regardless if you're a bosox fan, a mets fan, whatever --- the motherfucker is a gamer and he shows-up almost all the time.. Period.. And if you've been watching baseball as much as I have, and i know some of you old-timers have, you'll know that there were few that suited up like him..There isn't a stat for it and i'm glad there isn't..

Again, whether he is best of all time is up for debate, but he is the best in my generation and the generation before that ( Larkin, Dunston, etc )
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post #35 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiteaboy View Post
Based on what? Even if this is the case, there are stats standardized to each year's league average performance that you can use to compare across eras.

based on the specialization which has occured in the position. No one throws nine innings anymore. You have middle relief guys, you have the closers. There was a time when pitchers threw 9 innings almost everytime out. So, you can be facing a tired pitcher in the eighth/ninth inning or you can be facing a fresh Mariano Rivera in the ninth inning. Over the course of many years, all things being equal, I would believe that this would have an effect on your batting average/hits etc.
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post #36 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
based on the specialization which has occured in the position. No one throws nine innings anymore. You have middle relief guys, you have the closers. There was a time when pitchers threw 9 innings almost everytime out. So, you can be facing a tired pitcher in the eighth/ninth inning or you can be facing a fresh Mariano Rivera in the ninth inning. Over the course of many years, all things being equal, I would believe that this would have an effect on your batting average/hits etc.

That's a good point. But what about the differences in average ability of batters back then versus now? Is there any reason to think that pitchers and batters haven't improved at the same rate?
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post #37 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
I don't think he's even the best shortshop on the current Yankee team. A-Rod is a better shortshop. A-Rod isn't as clutch or as classy as Jeter, but he is a better shortstop.

then we have different definitions of best. When the big game is on the line, I want Jeter at the plate, not ARod.
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post #38 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
I don't think he's even the best shortshop on the current Yankee team. A-Rod is a better shortshop. A-Rod isn't as clutch or as classy as Jeter, but he is a better shortstop.

The whole Madonna relationship knocks him out of the running due to extreme grossness.
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post #39 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiteaboy View Post
That's a good point. But what about the differences in average ability of batters back then versus now? Is there any reason to think that pitchers and batters haven't improved at the same rate?

no, you are correct, which is why I said, I hate comparing era's. Are the bats better now?, is the ball livelier?, is the overall pitching better or worse? what was the OBP of the team each guy played for, etc etc etc.
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post #40 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan View Post
The whole Madonna relationship knocks him out of the running due to extreme grossness.


Of course it does, because you wouldn't touch Madonna would you?
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post #41 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:22pm
OMG CLUTCH!

A-Rod's post-season line: .291/.381/.519
Jeter's: .311/.380/.477

Wagner is unquestionably superior, and will be at the end of Jeter's career.
A-Rod would have been superior, had he stayed at short.
I think there's a case for a few more at this moment, but by the time Jeter retires, he'll be #2, though he's not otherworldly compared to the Yount/Trammell/Larkin group that follows.
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post #42 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
no, you are correct, which is why I said, I hate comparing era's. Are the bats better now?, is the ball livelier?, is the overall pitching better or worse? what was the OBP of the team each guy played for, etc etc etc.

This is why stats are normalized.
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post #43 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt View Post
This is from 2004, but paints a pretty clear picture.

That's pretty interesting, especially considering Robin Yount ended his career in the outfield -- go figure..
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post #44 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by milosz View Post
This is why stats are normalized.

there are a lot of things that happen on the field that can't be normalized.
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post #45 of 109
10/13/09 at 5:29pm
His baseball stats might be under question, but his Poon List is flawless and possibly the greatest ever assembled.

As far as tagging Madonna, I excuse him. Most Poon Kings sucked a kawk just to see what it was like, I consider Madonna equivalent to a homo moment.
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