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Vass distributorships, globalization, protectionism, etc... - Page 13

post #181 of 240
Quote:
I don't see how encouraging people to keep their sources secret would have helped defend his friends, which from what I can tell was his main purpose in this thread.

I see your point. Mine was that if the source of the "boot leg" shoes hadn't been disclosed in the first place there would have been no controversy.

People from B-G read this Forum...
post #182 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B.
People from B-G read this Forum...

Good. Now we should all feel important and listened to. Could we just let this thread die please. I think anything worth saying has been said a long time ago...
post #183 of 240
So shut it down and move it.
post #184 of 240
I only shut down threads if they are particularly offensive (and someone usually gets a few days in the can for it). There is nothing like that here. I would just prefer that the thread die of natural causes (i.e. lack of interest.) j. may have a differing policy.

Fok.
post #185 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B.
I objected to someone trumpeting the fact that these shoes could be had in Germany at a different, lower price than what they were available at B-G.

What's so objectionable for revealing a source selling the same shoes less than a local retailer? I am such "blabbermouth" for all things good deal, if I reveal a source (which I know and was planning on sharing but not so sure now) selling Kiton shoes for 1/3 of what BG is charging, are you going to beat down on me and ask others to excoriate me? If yes, why? If no, what make it different from Vass? I am not the lone voice here, many shared the same sentiment.

You killed all the joy of posting here on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j
Further, I wasn't around to see this editing of posts, but I have a feeling it was the same thing I have done myself accidentally before, especially in a hurry - moderators have the 'edit' and 'quote' buttons right next to each other on every post, and it's pretty easy if you're not paying attention to hit edit and go through a whole response before realizing you just edited your reply into someone else's post on accident.

J, his editing of member postings was no accident. He did it to Tomasso first and when Drake objected, Drake became his second victim. He admitted it. His conduct on this thread is appalling. I think I am done posting on this thread, or any further bargains for that matter.
post #186 of 240
Two quick points: (1) Steve B.: nothing was "boot-leg," meaning obtained in contravention of the law. Shoes were obtained from the German seller by a completely legal transaction. I know, I know, you'll now say that you were just kidding with that comment, but use of such language betrays a lack of objectivity and fairness (which we should be able to expect from a forum moderator), kidding or otherwise. (2) J, can you guarantee members that your moderators will cease and desist from editing members' posts from now on? Von Rothbart is right; it was absolutely no accident.
post #187 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGladwell
If exclusivity is your goal, isn't it more exclusive to be able to say "you can't get these shoes in the US; I bought mine in Europe" than "I bought them at Bergdorf down the street?"

Point being, if your interest really lies in keeping them exclusive, then perversely enough you want Andrew and Gabor to fail in their attempt to bring them here. I think most of us would either like to see them succeed or at worst are indifferent about it, but just think they need to realize that in the modern world large scale price differences between markets are going to be worked around, whether distributors want them to be or not and whether or not they have pieces of paper in their hands giving them exclusive rights to sell in national markets that just don't exist in the world of Mail/Entourage, VOIP, Visa, and DHL.

First of all, exclusivity is not my goal, I have no interest in Vass shoes whatsoever.

Second, I was just giving an economics-based reason on why it hurts people who buy them from BG if people from this forum can get them from a German retailer at a cheaper price. Somebody said that the people on this forum aren't the same people who go to BG so BG isn't losing any business by having the German guy sell them. My point was that by having the German guy sell them for cheaper the value of the shoes (which includes the value in exclusivity based on the fact that they are so expensive - not based on the fact that you can get them at Bergdorf down the street) declines, so this hurts BG and the person who purchases them from BG, and ultimately it hurts our friends A Harris and Gabor.

Sure, you can just walk over to Bergdorf and buy them if you have $1500 on hand that you are willing to spend on shoes. But, one factor that makes them so expensive is the value in knowing that a lot of people are either unwilling or unable to spend that much on shoes.
post #188 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley
The other side of the discussion is that the Vass shoe is a $650 or so shoe everywhere else - except in the US. That is what it is worth in the rest of the world. How is the value / quality increased by having the sale registered through BG? Vass is getting the same from all the sales. There is not a different product being offered - except that reportedly the better looking shoes are not available at BG.

BG adds value to the product by having the most wonderful shopping experience I've ever had in my life: from insanely perfect location to great staff to brochures to gorgeous building. Gabor took his time to talk to me about the product, make suggestions, and in short, provide service to a customer.

All of that stuff costs money. It's "value added" to the raw production cost of the product.

If you're satisfied with mail or internet order-level service, more power to you. I'm not. I like to shop. At a store.

I'll be sad when they're all gone.
post #189 of 240
Quote:
What's so objectionable for revealing a source selling the same shoes less than a local retailer? I am such "blabbermouth" for all things good deal, if I reveal a source (which I know and was planning on sharing but not so sure now) selling Kiton shoes for 1/3 of what BG is charging, are you going to beat down on me and ask others to excoriate me? If yes, why? If no, what make it different from Vass?

Are the only authorized distributors of Kiton shoes members of this Forum?

You really can't see the difference?

Quote:
I am not the lone voice here, many shared the same sentiment.

No you're not. But just as many members have expressed support for the Vass representatives. Read the thread- it's been about 50/50.

And I'm not here to win a popularity contest.

Quote:
J, his editing of member postings was no accident. He did it to Tomasso first and when Drake objected, Drake became his second victim. He admitted it. His conduct on this thread is appalling. I think I am done posting on this thread, or any further bargains for that matter.

I edited Drake's posting to fix the error I'd made in the first place.
post #190 of 240
Quote:
"boot-leg,"

Man, you guys are really getting worked up about this.

When I think of "bootleg" I think of Grateful Dead tapes and that sort of thing.

Sorry to make the reference if you felt I was implying that these shoes were obtained illegally.
post #191 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater
Second, I was just giving an economics-based reason on why it hurts people who buy them from BG if people from this forum can get them from a German retailer at a cheaper price. Somebody said that the people on this forum aren't the same people who go to BG so BG isn't losing any business by having the German guy sell them. My point was that by having the German guy sell them for cheaper the value of the shoes (which includes the value in exclusivity based on the fact that they are so expensive - not based on the fact that you can get them at Bergdorf down the street) declines, so this hurts BG and the person who purchases them from BG, and ultimately it hurts our friends A Harris and Gabor.

Frankly, if I were rich enough to merrily drop $1500 on a pair of Hungarian shoes at BG, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about someone else wearing a similar pair, much less asking the poorer guy how much he paid for the shoes. People that rich are too busy about other things than to concern themselves with where their analyst, accountant or assistant got their shoes. And the number of people willing to shell out $600 on a pair of shoes sight unseen are not that big.
post #192 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
(2) J, can you guarantee members that your moderators will cease and desist from editing members' posts from now on? Von Rothbart is right; it was absolutely no accident.

No, I cannot guarantee that - as I said it is very easy to do by mistake. I have done it myself a couple of times. It is not our policy to edit posts we disagree with. (Unless abusive.) However, I talked to Steve (since I missed the "editing incident") and he said that he had edited replies into the posts in question. Since I wasn't around, I have no idea what was there, what was edited in, and what was edited back out. If he only edited replies and didn't remove opinions contrary to his own, I think it probably was an honest mistake.

You have been very hostile on this thread, jumping down quite a few members' throats about this issue. I ask you to give the benefit of the doubt a little bit. I/we want you guys to get the best deals on things, but we also want our members with commercial interests to feel that they won't be worked around and unfairly undercut after putting in a lot of work. I'm not saying that is what has happened here, but you must understand the balance we try to strike.
post #193 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkoak
And the number of people willing to shell out $600 on a pair of shoes sight unseen are not that big.
Sight unseen is a bit strong in this case. At the risk of rehashing old arguments, A Harris and Gabor have given Vass more visibility on the board than any other foreign maker. Look at the mystery surrounding St Crispin's right now.
post #194 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkoak
Frankly, if I were rich enough to merrily drop $1500 on a pair of Hungarian shoes at BG, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about someone else wearing a similar pair, much less asking the poorer guy how much he paid for the shoes. People that rich are too busy about other things than to concern themselves with where their analyst, accountant or assistant got their shoes. And the number of people willing to shell out $600 on a pair of shoes sight unseen are not that big.

Nevertheless. We're arguing two different things. I'm arguing economic theory - that being "market value added by exclusivity." You're arguing speculation about what you think rich people would or would not do. The fact of the matter is that it does not matter what rich people would or would not do or think - having a retailer that is selling at a lower price lowers market value - period.
post #195 of 240
Quote:
J, can you guarantee members that your moderators will cease and desist from editing members' posts from now on? Von Rothbart is right; it was absolutely no accident.

Then what's the point of having moderators in the first place?

Look- the edited posts were up maybe 5 minutes. I'm human I make mistakes.

We don't edit many posts here. Search my posts and see how many...

Maybe 20 over the span of 4 years.
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