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Definitive Technology speakers - Page 5

post #61 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
Demian Martin is well-known and respected by a wide cross-section of the audio community. What he says does not come from a position that is partisan to any one group of the community. The styrofoam-and-cables crowd respect him as much as the objectivist crowd does, and so his comment is significant because he doesn't have an axe to grind. If Tom Nousaine or Peter Aczel had said the same thing, their comments would have been suspect (even by me) because they've demonstrated irrational hostility and close-mindedness towards the subjectivists. Martin straddles both sides, and has considerably more credibility because of that. --Andre
I think the problem with Martin is that his comments don't make any sense as I have outlined above. I would be more impressed with Keith Johnson's view but he was not at RMAF. But even I have caught Keith making mistakes when commenting on DSD since it is a format he does not work with. He has presented to our local audio club and at several shows I have been to. He makes some of the best classical recordings I have heard, right up there with Peter McGrath. The criticisms are at their base trying to criticize research that has not been finished nor has a white paper been released yet. Based on the PPT slides I saw, I would bet that Vertex AQ and Acuity Products has done their homework. If not, what would be the point? It must have been expensive to engage a top defense contractor who builds bleeding edge sonar equipment. Often you have breakthroughs from applying innovation in one industry vertical to another. Gareth-Jones applied his military science knowledge to audio so that probably helped in terms of his not having any preconceived audio notions of tweaks and effectiveness. His world is very much a signal to noise game so I am not surprised he found a way to apply sonar engineering. You asked about the isolation of the noise. My understanding is that he used several different CD players and measured the analog outputs under these different AC/cable/vibration conditions. A scientist of Gareth-Jones' stature surely made sure all the other conditions were present so the resulting graphs were a true depiction of the new conditions. By using the same CD player to subtract the results of the conditioned player from, they eliminate any effect of jitter which they were not trying to measure since it has been well documented. One thing Demian might have been pissed about is that the results showed the Linn Karik player to have tremendous distortion. I believe he may have been associated with Linn for a while but I am not entirely sure of that.
post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan View Post
The criticisms are at their base trying to criticize research that has not been finished nor has a white paper been released yet.

As previously mentioned, the criticisms are about the procedures and the conclusions drawn so far, neither of which depend on the research being finished.

Quote:
Based on the PPT slides I saw, I would bet that Vertex AQ and Acuity Products has done their homework. If not, what would be the point? It must have been expensive to engage a top defense contractor who builds bleeding edge sonar equipment.

The point is to create buzz and word-of-mouth with fantastic-sounding claims. "It must have been expensive"? Are you speculating?

Quote:
You asked about the isolation of the noise.

No I didn't. I explicitly asked for their measurement protocol for the difference signal. Without that information, the rest of their experiment is meaningless.

Quote:
One thing Demian might have been pissed about is that the results showed the Linn Karik player to have tremendous distortion. I believe he may have been associated with Linn for a while but I am not entirely sure of that.

So if someone disagrees with you, and you can find no logical or technical reason to dispute their claims, you ascribe less than honorable motives to them. Classy as always.

And FYI, I know who designed the Karik, and it is not Demian. Also, you do realize that the Karik is just a transport? So I'm not sure how the 1337 military sonar specialist ninja dude could have conducted his tests on it.

--Andre
post #63 of 66
^It was the transport+DAC combo they tested according to Roy.
post #64 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
For $2500, you can do way better than the Def Techs or spend much less money for the quality of Def Techs.

--Andre

It would be SO nice if when people said things like this they followed it up with examples and perhaps even links.
Just a thought.
post #65 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
It would be SO nice if when people said things like this they followed it up with examples and perhaps even links.
Just a thought.

I did, but here is a link as well: http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_16
post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
It would be SO nice if when people said things like this they followed it up with examples and perhaps even links.
Just a thought.

There are lots, so much so that it's not often useful to post them without knowing what OP has locally available to him, and what he expects from his speakers. But here are some for all tastes: Revel, Aerial, Paradigm, PSB, B&W, NHT, Infinity, Vandersteen. In each case, you can find the models that sells for around $2500, and they will be far superior to anything Def Tech makes. If OP is willing to look on the used market, the sky's almost the limit: you can find good-condition Aerial 10Ts for that price or lower, for example.

Think about it from the suit perspective: someone wants to spend $2500 on a suit. Do you just throw brand names at him, or ask him what he has available to him, what cut he likes, what he's going to be wearing a suit for, and then suggest something based on that information?

--Andre
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