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Current opinions on Dege/Whittaker bespoke shirts - Page 6

post #76 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
While no one cares and it was not asked, I am in the camp that believes that the difference between good MTM and bespoke shirts is miniscule relative to the difference between the same in suits. You can get a great fit from a non-bespoke maker, I think the personal pattern thing is very much over done here, unless you just have a very hard upper body to fit. I feel the same about MTM/bespoke shoes.

My name is whnay and I endorse this message.

I wish you luck on the shirts vox - I've seen Mr. Whittaker's work and he does a fine job.
post #77 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.O. Thornhill View Post
Must stop recommending SOF - when I went to see him yesterday he appeared very busy, with a lot of new customer orders. Will let you know if this causes any delays - but would not imagine so

Can't compare his shirts to bespoke Matuozzo or Charvet in terms of fit - as I have have bespoken shirts from neither. In terms of construction they are very different from Matuozzo - utilitarian rather than works of art. Very much depends on your willingness to pay x3 for the extra handiwork

Thanks Thornhill

Anyone else have any experience of a shirt from O'Flynn vs the likes of Charvet/Ascot Chang?
post #78 of 391
I've said it before, I'll say it again: shirtmaking isn't rocket science. If you can perfect your pattern with Jantzen over three or five shirts you're well there.

That said, I'd suggest using a good shirtmaker locally or somewhere that you visit often. I used Charvet's bespoke service and was happy with them. I also used Lanvin and Courtot. My comparisons are elsewhere on this forum if anyone is interested, just dafs. However, I cannot emphasize enough that if you are going to put down $500 or $1000 or however much the top-of-the-line bespoke shirts being discussed here might cost, you should take advantage of what the shirtmaker offers: Go there in person and have the shirtmaker himself or herself measure you, not a salesman. Charvet and Lanvin provide a sample fitting shirt which is used to perfect the pattern and which is not part of your order -- most British shirtmakers don't do this, and it generally takes a few weeks . You need to be around for that fitting. When your actual shirt order is finished, visit in person, have the shirtmaker assess the shirt -- s/he may have additional adjustments to make. Charvet also advises you to wear the shirt over the course of a few weeks or a month, wash it a few times, then come back with it in case any further adjustments are needed as the shirt breaks in. Lanvin was happy to do this too. If you are a real big-timer or a pretentious blowhard perhaps you can make it to Paris often enough to make it work. If not...

Many more reasonably priced shirtmakers may allow you to make adjustments too. But there is no point in being measured by a salesperson who doesn't know a thing about how a shirt is put together and paying an enormous price for an item you will not be completely satisfied with. The bespoke or MTM services offered for Charvet out of Bergdorf or Saks are stock specials, no matter what they say, and the prices for Charvet RTW and stock specials are much, much higher in the US and UK than they are in France, although even in France Charvet is very expensive.

What is important in a custom shirt is fit -- that you get it the way you want and in a way that accomodates your body. Construction, of course, is another priority. Then should come things like cloth selection, handwork, and all the rest.

I used Charvet at a time in my life which was very different in almost every way from today. Even then the price was unjustifiably high, but a wonderful indulgence. What was I paying for? Dreams, the incredible cloth room, the experience, service and the reliability of product and fit -- more or less in that order. YMMV.
post #79 of 391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post
My name is whnay and I endorse this message.

I wish you luck on the shirts vox - I've seen Mr. Whittaker's work and he does a fine job.

Thank you, B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman View Post
I've said it before, I'll say it again: shirtmaking isn't rocket science. If you can perfect your pattern with Jantzen over three or five shirts you're well there.

That said, I'd suggest using a good shirtmaker locally or somewhere that you visit often. I used Charvet's bespoke service and was happy with them. I also used Lanvin and Courtot. My comparisons are elsewhere on this forum if anyone is interested, just dafs. However, I cannot emphasize enough that if you are going to put down $500 or $1000 or however much the top-of-the-line bespoke shirts being discussed here might cost, you should take advantage of what the shirtmaker offers: Go there in person and have the shirtmaker himself or herself measure you, not a salesman. Charvet and Lanvin provide a sample fitting shirt which is used to perfect the pattern and which is not part of your order -- most British shirtmakers don't do this, and it generally takes a few weeks . You need to be around for that fitting. When your actual shirt order is finished, visit in person, have the shirtmaker assess the shirt -- s/he may have additional adjustments to make. Charvet also advises you to wear the shirt over the course of a few weeks or a month, wash it a few times, then come back with it in case any further adjustments are needed as the shirt breaks in. Lanvin was happy to do this too. If you are a real big-timer or a pretentious blowhard perhaps you can make it to Paris often enough to make it work. If not...

Many more reasonably priced shirtmakers may allow you to make adjustments too. But there is no point in being measured by a salesperson who doesn't know a thing about how a shirt is put together and paying an enormous price for an item you will not be completely satisfied with. The bespoke or MTM services offered for Charvet out of Bergdorf or Saks are stock specials, no matter what they say, and the prices for Charvet RTW and stock specials are much, much higher in the US and UK than they are in France, although even in France Charvet is very expensive.

What is important in a custom shirt is fit -- that you get it the way you want and in a way that accomodates your body. Construction, of course, is another priority. Then should come things like cloth selection, handwork, and all the rest.

I used Charvet at a time in my life which was very different in almost every way from today. Even then the price was unjustifiably high, but a wonderful indulgence. What was I paying for? Dreams, the incredible cloth room, the experience, service and the reliability of product and fit -- more or less in that order. YMMV.

I'm requoting your excellent reply so that people who want to read the text in italics with a shaded background have the opportunity to do so.


- B
post #80 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I'm requoting your excellent reply so that people who want to read the text in italics with a shaded background have the opportunity to do so.
Uh thanks. Have you considered changing this threak title to "Hey, /b/ needs your help."

moar srsly, I forgot to mention two things:

1. Anecdotally there has been a lot of talk about problems with T&A bespoke by everyone except Seitelman and the late Dominic Dunne up until recently. I believe David Gale recently became the head cutter or shirtmaker or whatever there after having been the well-regarded bespoke guy at the London operations of Dunhill and before that Sulka. Again anecdotally, the few forum reviews of T&A bespoke since then seem to have been positive. YMMV.

2. As the paragraph above may indicate, a shirtmaking house is only as good as the current shirtmakers (and of course the tailors and assemblers) in it. I don't know if Marc Lauwers is still at Lanvin, and I know that my shirtmakers at Charvet either are retiring or have retired. They were training successors, but I haven't been in a position to use them or to need to use them. Lauwers' predecessor at Lanvin, the legendary Pierre Duboin, is in semi-retirement but is thinking of ways to modernize the bespoke shirt buying experience for those who can't travel to a shirtmaker often for fittings.
post #81 of 391
Thread Starter 
^ Thank you.


- B
post #82 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
As you note, B belongs in a different category. I was all set to try them once, but they said they didn't have enough time. Seemed like a good value for what you get.

Can this be done anywhere on this side of the pond? Or must one go to Italy for Battistoni?
post #83 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman View Post
What was I paying for? Dreams, the incredible cloth room, the experience, service and the reliability of product and fit -- more or less in that order. YMMV.

post #84 of 391
Madame Colban looks considerably younger than her years. I never got to ask her if she was a cat person, but I bet she is. All the fabric room needed was a cat.
post #85 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman View Post
All the fabric room needed was a cat.



post #86 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
While no one cares and it was not asked, I am in the camp that believes that the difference between good MTM and bespoke shirts is miniscule relative to the difference between the same in suits. You can get a great fit from a non-bespoke maker, I think the personal pattern thing is very much over done here, unless you just have a very hard upper body to fit.

Maybe there is general truth to this, but I think my bespoke shirts are significantly better fitting than my MTM ones and, despite my shortness, my upper body isn't very oddly shaped. Is there a MTM maker you would recommend?
post #87 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
Maybe there is general truth to this, but I think my bespoke shirts are significantly better fitting than my MTM ones and, despite my shortness, my upper body isn't very oddly shaped. Is there a MTM maker you would recommend?

Have you considered taking your MTM (BB OCBDs?) to an alterations tailor to have the fit tweaked?
post #88 of 391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

A potential WAYWRN shot:




- B
post #89 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post
Have you considered taking your MTM (BB OCBDs?) to an alterations tailor to have the fit tweaked?

I figure it's probably not worth the time and money. The one major issue is bunching at the yoke seam in the back.
post #90 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
While no one cares and it was not asked, I am in the camp that believes that the difference between good MTM and bespoke shirts is miniscule relative to the difference between the same in suits. You can get a great fit from a non-bespoke maker, I think the personal pattern thing is very much over done here, unless you just have a very hard upper body to fit.

I'll third this motion after Whnay.

I have tried Armani MTM, Anto/Kabbaz/Bassetti bespoke, and have settled with the notion that a shirt is more underwear than stand alone garment. Thus, the key design and fit areas are the collar and cuffs. To be picky about body fit [at the level of a jacket's fit] with cotton shirting is one sure way to drive a shirtmaker crazy.

Unless . . . that shirtmaker is crazier [more obsessive] than you.

- M
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