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Current opinions on Dege/Whittaker bespoke shirts - Page 5

post #61 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
1) English shirts are rather tentish. I don't like a tight fit myself, but I like a trimmer shirt than the English make. Charvet is about my ideal for body fit, and Geneva gets very close to that.

2) They seem to me not to try very hard. One sample shirt, some "corrections," and that's it. I almost think that "bespoke" is too generous a term for what they do. I don't see the evidence of pattern manipulation at very many points to individualize fit.

3) Construction is OK, but you certainly would get neater machine sewing from Paris (the city, not the firm) or Geneva (the firm).

A fairly sweeping set of generalisations about English shirt-makers there. I have never used Whittaker, but have used T&A for bespoke, and have now been a client of Sean O'Flynn's for a year or so, and I can't say I agree with this.

1) I like a trim shirt - the fact that I have a 10" drop and a neck that is more than half as thick as my waist was one of main reasons I went bespoke - and both T&A and SOF have had no issue with producing one for me. With T&A it took somewhat longer, but with SOF he got the fit right pretty much straight off the bat.

2) I don't know how hard you want them to try. With Sean, the first shirt was pretty much perfect, but we have been playing around with adjustments since then. Also, changing the pattern slightly for different types of shirts (evening shirts vs. business shirts vs. casual shirts). Nothing I have asked has been a problem, and ten shirts in I couldn't be happier. If this is not bespoke, I don't know what is

3) Construction can definitely be an issue with English shirt-makers (it was with T&A for me, though I'm told they've improved; and I have seen less than impressive examples from elsewhere). With Sean I have never had any real complaints. You're not getting a handmade shirts - and I have seen RTW shirts with more impressive sewing - but the construction is competent, and very good value. At £175 (€190 nowadays) for a very decent Alumo fabric it really can't be faulted when compared to, say, Charvet or Matuozzo.

Still keen to experiment with others - Bugelli when next in Florence for an extended period, or Charvet, but this is more out of a sense of curiousity than from any dissatisfaction with English shirts.

So - go English - it's a great choice, and will work well with your Steed suits
post #62 of 391
I'd agree on Sean O'Flynn's ability to make a trim shirt, but I have had the 'tenting' problem with Budd and Connock & Lockie (although the in the case of the latter the cutter is not the same person that measures you, so not sure that is true bespoke).

The first bespoke shirts I had made were at Ede & Ravenscroft and I went elsewhere only because of price - the fit was as good as Sean's although I prefer Sean's collars.
post #63 of 391
I have nothing substantive to add on Dege / Whittaker, so ignore this post at your whim, but will say that based on prior experience, I'd steer well clear of T&A. Placed an order from their NYC store a couple of years ago and had a truly abysmal experience. I'll spare the blow by blows, but I do think it unreasonable that their six shirt minimum order (about $400 per shirt) took over a year and a half to complete, largely the result of two incompetently measured test shirts (both around an inch too small in the shoulders and waist - quite a sight...) and then an almost complete absence of communication regarding fabric availability. While those elements were poor enough, more galling was the lack of any remorse for the service blunders. Shirts were reasonably well constructed, although nothing, as others say, that NY bespoke makers couldn't produce.
post #64 of 391
I'm also planning on getting some bespoke shirts made - I have a few makers I am considering but am leaning towards Sean O'Flynn.

I initially wanted to go with T&A, but consider them too much of a risk given the significantly mixed results people seem to have had with them.

I have seen good feedback on O'Flynn from a number of posters but I was wondering if anyone had any experience of how O'Flynn's shirts compare against those produced by the likes of Charvet, Matuozzo and Ascot Chang (I mention the last of those as I am in HK at the moment and so they are also an option)?
post #65 of 391
I couldn't disagree more with your statements about BoLine. I also find is bs that you would make that kind of a statement without any direct experience.
post #66 of 391
My last experience with Dege shirts is probably close to two years ago. I used them for a very long time before that and liked them, but quality started to slip (broken seams, changes in seam widths, less fine stitching in general, etc.) and mistakes on orders and follow-through started to increase. At the same time, missed orders and delays got worse. I dropped them over that but also over similar frustration on the tailoring side. But I had so many unworn shirts stockpiled that have only last month began with a potential replacement. I really liked Whittaker and wished the problems were not as annoying as they were. If I could use he Dege of ten years ago, I would still be with them and happy. Maybe that is the Dege you will get. Initial fit was fine. I don't understand the "tent-like" comment. They will fit it the way you like. As with other later issues, follow through on subsequent adjustments to my pattern ten years after the first pattern were not what I would have wanted (being immune to aging, this may not be an issue for you). They have all the fabric choices you could want so comments about being limited to English-style shirtings are not really relevant.
post #67 of 391
Thread Starter 
Thank you to everyone who replied about Dege.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardcharles View Post
I couldn't disagree more with your statements about BoLine. I also find is bs that you would make that kind of a statement without any direct experience.

Great...can you elaborate? Just to reiterate what you are said: I do not have any direct customer experience...but then, a premise of this thread is that I have no direct experience with any shirtmaker. That's why I was asking about Dege.

I asked about Bo-Line before after Carl recommended them, and got PMs from three members who had used them. Each was negative. I've seen one sample in person...it did not strike me as particularly good, but that could have been the client.

If you have had a different experience, I would love to hear more about it, and...you know this is coming next...see photographs of you wearing the shirts if you are willing. Also prices if you have had shirts made recently.

- B
post #68 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dib View Post
I'm also planning on getting some bespoke shirts made - I have a few makers I am considering but am leaning towards Sean O'Flynn.

Must stop recommending SOF - when I went to see him yesterday he appeared very busy, with a lot of new customer orders. Will let you know if this causes any delays - but would not imagine so

Can't compare his shirts to bespoke Matuozzo or Charvet in terms of fit - as I have have bespoken shirts from neither. In terms of construction they are very different from Matuozzo - utilitarian rather than works of art. Very much depends on your willingness to pay x3 for the extra handiwork
post #69 of 391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.O. Thornhill View Post
Very much depends on your willingness to pay x3 for the extra handiwork

One of Edwin's funny stories when at A&S goes like so. There was no air conditioning at the old cutting rooms. On a particular unbearably hot summer day, another cutter and he left the shop without their jackets to go to lunch.

When they returned, Colin Harvey gave them both a stern admonishment about "going out in their underwear in full view," and told them never to let that happen again.

I wished that O'Flynn travelled here with Huntsman like he did a few times in the past...I would try him out in that case.


- B
post #70 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.O. Thornhill View Post
Very much depends on your willingness to pay x3 for the extra nubs

Foofed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
One of Edwin's funny stories when at A&S goes like so. There was no air conditioning at the old cutting rooms. On a particular unbearably hot summer day, another cutter and he left the shop without their jackets to go to lunch.

When they returned, Colin Harvey gave them both a stern admonishment about "going out in their underwear in full view," and told them never to let that happen again.

Mahon? Iirc, I read that story on his blog.
post #71 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
One of Edwin's funny stories when at A&S goes like so. There was no air conditioning at the old cutting rooms. On a particular unbearably hot summer day, another cutter and he left the shop without their jackets to go to lunch.

When they returned, Colin Harvey gave them both a stern admonishment about "going out in their underwear in full view," and told them never to let that happen again.

I wished that O'Flynn travelled here with Huntsman like he did a few times in the past...I would try him out in that case.


- B

Great story - sums up why I never really "got" the idea of elaborately hand-stitched shirts

Don't think Sean has traveled to the US for the last few years, but if you travel (even infrequently) to London I would give him a shot
post #72 of 391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post
Mahon?

I don't know, but that would make sense.


- B
post #73 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.O. Thornhill View Post
Must stop recommending SOF - when I went to see him yesterday he appeared very busy, with a lot of new customer orders. Will let you know if this causes any delays - but would not imagine so

I ordered a batch on 23 July and they will only be ready end of next week. Don't know how that compares with others' turnaround. Also summer has intervened.
post #74 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winot View Post
I ordered a batch on 23 July and they will only be ready end of next week. Don't know how that compares with others' turnaround. Also summer has intervened.

Six weeks has been my typical experience - with one rushed evening shirt as quick as 4 weeks. You will have lost four weeks for summer though. Hope my new Alumo genuine south sea island cottons will be as quick as usual
post #75 of 391
I am always shocked to hear about bad T&A experiences. I owned about 4-5 shirts from them, ordered through the boutique about a milennia ago and the service/construction/delivery time/etc were all great

While no one cares and it was not asked, I am in the camp that believes that the difference between good MTM and bespoke shirts is miniscule relative to the difference between the same in suits. You can get a great fit from a non-bespoke maker, I think the personal pattern thing is very much over done here, unless you just have a very hard upper body to fit. I feel the same about MTM/bespoke shoes. And since vox is the king of threak derails, I am sure he will not mind this post.
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