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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - Page 2435

post #36511 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by sekman View Post
 

Okay, lets dismiss this claim:

Is the number of seconds indicative of keen eyed quality control personnel or of sloppy workmanship?

 

And again lets think about numbers:

218 Models

90+ Size options

Multiple Colors per Model

 

Consider the numbers, seriously, there are tons of variations in a particular shoe, is it really that unconscionable that there are what seems to be a decent number of readily available seconds?

I own four pairs of seconds and can only identify a flaw in one of them, which suggests tight quality control standards.  I have never seen a flawed pair of firsts when shopping for AEs.

 

Speaking of limited stock in 2nds... I missed the Black Friday blowout during which some people on this forum secured Long Branches for $99 because there was no stock in my 11E.  I stopped by the Shoe Bank yesterday to see if the situation had changed.  It had not, but I tried on a pair of 10.5EEEs that fit surprisingly well--just a little pressure along my left big toe.  As AE has no stock of 11E firsts, either, I can only guess whether they would fit better.

 

I remember someone posting here the precise increments/measurements of size and width increases but cannot relocate it.   Holding the 10.5EEE Long Branches sole-to-sole with my 11E PAs and Leeds, it's hard to discern a difference.  If I had purchased these at $99, I'm certain I'd be satisfied with the fit.  Knowledge that I missed this sale is somehow making the slight pressure more noticeable.  Any relevant experience on fits across these lasts to offer? 

post #36512 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinngiskhaan View Post
 

LOL

chill... I'm a student still, I have no need for loads of dress shoes... yet...;)... I have another pair on the way... and my plan is to buy around 2 pair a year until I get out of school in 2 years then I can buy them as I need/want them. I got my first pair of AE's for fathers day.

 

I'm here all the time because I love shoes and I want to learn more.

Okay, ya big baby... Just ribbing you a bit (you had it coming, too :slapfight:). I don't want you to get labelled as a member who responds with 'heated emotion'!!! Ha!  

 

FWIW, I'm sure NOONE here NEEDS the amount of shoes some members fess up to having, including yours truly. So enjoy the journey! Consider the pot stirred...

post #36513 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyoshi68 View Post
 

Okay, ya big baby... Just ribbing you a bit (you had it coming, too :slapfight:). I don't want you to get labelled as a member who responds with 'heated emotion'!!! Ha!  

 

FWIW, I'm sure NOONE here NEEDS the amount of shoes some members fess up to having, including yours truly. So enjoy the journey! Consider the pot stirred...

Heated emotion???? I would NEVER stoop to those levels!:uhoh:... lol

 

Yes, the pot has been stirred, but luckily, people are back to posting pictures of their shoes... 

 

Also, if you stop and think about it, if I had dozens of pairs of shoes, don't you think I'd be posting pictures of them instead of "stirring the pot"?

 

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with heated emotion when warranted. However, most of the time the heated emotion comes from someone misunderstanding someone else's words.

 

Anyways, I'm glad to know there is at least one forum member that can take a joke!

post #36514 of 53182
AE produces far more shoes than say EG or Alden. To put it in perspective, St.C produces around 1500 pairs per year, that number of shoes is probably sitting in the stockroom of one of the major NYC stores. I think that Allen Edmonds churns out as many shoes as they can, not overly concerning themselves with mistakes as the seconds market is so robust.
post #36515 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bespoken pa View Post

AE produces far more shoes than say EG or Alden. To put it in perspective, St.C produces around 1500 pairs per year, that number of shoes is probably sitting in the stockroom of one of the major NYC stores. I think that Allen Edmonds churns out as many shoes as they can, not overly concerning themselves with mistakes as the seconds market is so robust.

I've definitely considered that as a likely explanation. 

 

So do you think they don't take the time to properly train their craftsmen or are the second quality shoes just purely an inevitable result of the incredibly high amount of shoes they put out and the firsts to seconds ratio for AE is not much worse than that of say an Alden or EG?

 

Once again... just questions and thanks a bunch for the input!

post #36516 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by polojock615 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post


Don't buy them. You may wear them twice a year, if that. At some point you will look in your closet and think: "what the hell was I thinking?" biggrin.gif

I have white Neumoks.  Hardly ever wear them, but still fun to look at.AppleMark

 

I LOVE all three of those pairs.  Even if I wore each of them only once or twice a year, I would treasure them.

 

Polo, between your exotics, specimens like these, etc., you have one hell of a shoe collection.  Any chance you could post group pic(s) of all 50+?

post #36517 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinngiskhaan View Post

this forum needs some livening up  ...sly.gif Which brings me to my inquiry that I posted last Friday regarding the number of "second" quality shoes that AE produces. Why are there so many? Is it really that many or does this forum skew my perspective on the number of second quality shoes? Why are issues with stitching, pinking, and medallion alignment oftentimes not noticed by quality control and sent out as first quality shoes? Is it because those making the shoes aren't true professionally trained craftsmen? Is it because of the speed at which they are required to work?

Please understand, these questions are in no way a knock on Allen Edmonds. I do not have any sort of bone to pick with Allen Edmonds, the only pair of AE shoes I own has no quality issues whatsoever. I have ordered my second pair and am waiting for them to show up at my doorstep. I also know that AE is more than willing to work with you if your alleged first quality shoes have these issues, or even issues that are far less concerning. I'm just curious to hear what you all happen to know/think about the subject... stirpot.gif

Why would you ask any of this when you seemed to reply so matter-of-factly while that conversation happened the first time around?
post #36518 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by polojock615 View Post
 

I have white Neumoks.  Hardly ever wear them, but still fun to look at.AppleMark


the pic cracks me up because i notice you have JAB shoe trees in your allen edmonds! presumably because you can get three of them for 25 bucks all the time.  i do the exact same thing! hah...

post #36519 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinngiskhaan View Post

I've definitely considered that as a likely explanation. 

So do you think they don't take the time to properly train their craftsmen or are the second quality shoes just purely an inevitable result of the incredibly high amount of shoes they put out and the firsts to seconds ratio for AE is not much worse than that of say an Alden or EG?

Once again... just questions and thanks a bunch for the input!


IMO the seconds are an accepted trade off for the number of shoes they produce. I have been advised that EGs rejection rate is around 2%. EG uses much more handcrafting along the way. In addition their raw materials are much more expensive as such I am sure management frowns upon waste. Additionally I would bet EG discourages a seconds or subs market as it dilutes the brand. I was in CJ a couple of weeks ago and they were actually selling their subs in showroom which I found interesting. They had a few mto model rejects that were fairly unique.
post #36520 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorman View Post
 


the pic cracks me up because i notice you have JAB shoe trees in your allen edmonds! presumably because you can get three of them for 25 bucks all the time.  i do the exact same thing! hah...

I know, right?  They're actually made by Woodlore and identical to AE shoe trees.  I have a few AE shoe trees, but that was before I learned better.  I've got another dozen or so pairs in the closet waiting for more shoes.

post #36521 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfnhalfnhalf View Post
 

 

I LOVE all three of those pairs.  Even if I wore each of them only once or twice a year, I would treasure them.

 

Polo, between your exotics, specimens like these, etc., you have one hell of a shoe collection.  Any chance you could post group pic(s) of all 50+?

I have older pics; nothing within the past six months or so, but enjoy:

 

AppleMark

Shell:

 

AppleMark

More shell:

AppleMark

 

This is probably 15 pairs or so ago:

 

AppleMark

 

AppleMark

post #36522 of 53182

@chinngiskhaan regards to your question about the number and frequency of seconds, I have to raise the question regarding the competency and experience of those involved in AE's manufacturing process.

 

From my understanding alot of the common flaws from seconds and even firsts is that we see uneven pinking/stitching, crooked lasting and bulging. Bulging, I think has been discussed at great length, and the culprit seems to be AE's manufacturing process. Stitching, pinking and general crookedness is more of a user error from the shoe crafts(wo)men at AE in Port Washington or the Domican Republic.

 

Now I'm not sure if in the DR they do the pinking and stitching, but I do recall that the workers there do make the uppers which I'm assuming is also to cut the patterns. From what it seems like, that doesn't seem to be the majority of the flaws we see in AE shoes. For the most part, the clickers seem to be doing a fine job following the set patterns. I'd imagine this isn't where most flaws occur since it's like cutting around a stencil (to put it in very simple terms).

 

When the shoes are stiched, lasted and finished in PW, it seems like this is where there is the most room for error. This would mean that 1)  this job might be more difficult and subject to the skill and judgment of the crafts(wo)man, or 2) there are not enough workers to keep up with demand which leads to less time allowed per shoe and less attention to detail or 3) the skill level of the employees is not as good enough to consistently produce near perfect shoes.

 

My guess is a combination of all three, but one point I'd like to make that I think gets forgotten is that the ones making shoes at Vass, G&G and John Lobb are low volume and also very few and likely skilled craftspeople who have been doing it for years and maybe even as a family trade. My guess at AE is that alot of people are trained after being hired to work on the factory floor. I say this because I don't believe there is any way Port Washington has that many shoe makers who are experienced to keep up with the demand. I haven't visited the factory, but I have to imagine that not all the shoe makers are ones who've been doing it for 25 years or those brought up through apprenticeship.

 

I think AE is unique in that their employees likely are newer at the craft, more likely to have turnover, have less time per shoe than many of these other makers and thus could produce more flawed shoes per employee. To me, this is the nature of the business and the sacrifices AE has to make to meet the demand and the price point they wish to sell their shoes at.

 

This isn't a knock against AE, as I personally only own AE shoes. Not because I think they are the best out there, but I think they put out a pretty good product for the price, even at $345 (which I've never paid for). The others at this price range are either relatively new and untested (Paul Evans) or inconvenient due to lack of domestic presence (Meermin). I would eventually like to get some Carminas, Alden shells or C&Js but currently the value isn't there for me.

 

I think overall we're pretty critical of shoes on this thread and like they say, bad news travels faster and I'd say more pervasively than good news. For every one person here that posts flaws in their first quality shoes, there are probably many more shoes AE produces with no real issues. I would say that AE could do a better job with some of our special make ups and there seems to be a disproportionate number being sent back, but I think that making one off shoes in a different material than their stock catalog might be more difficult than we think.

 

This post went on alot longer than I originally planned and I rambled, but just my two cents on the whole AE flaws "issue". Also, I guess I started the whole debate a few days back about the acceptability of bowing with the post about my Delrays. Totally did not mean for that to happen....:stirpot:

post #36523 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas512 View Post

Thanks! This cedar is killing me! I've never had allergies / been allergic to anything I'm my life. I've only been in Austin for about a year and this is a first for me

 

Sorry it hit you so quickly. Allergy to "Mountain Cedar" (actually Ashe Juniper) is notorious for taking years to develop in some (myself included).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hunter View Post

Austin is killer for allergies. I grew up there and never had issues untill I moved back after college.

 

That sounds more normal. :)

post #36524 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by polojock615 View Post
 

I know, right?  They're actually made by Woodlore and identical to AE shoe trees.  I have a few AE shoe trees, but that was before I learned better.  I've got another dozen or so pairs in the closet waiting for more shoes.


funny that's exactly what happened to me too.  first bought the factory seconds trees at about $16 per.  then found them at the rack for $13.  finally resorted to the JAB at $8 per. turns out they are all made by more or less the same company with the same quality .  wish i had joined this forum a little earlier...

post #36525 of 53182
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post

Don't buy them. You may wear them twice a year, if that. At some point you will look in your closet and think: "what the hell was I thinking?" biggrin.gif

Yeah, yeah. Too late, I just kopped a pair frown.gif
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