or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - Page 1674

post #25096 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgp001 View Post

 

Unlikely. AE is already controlled by a private equity company, which means the cuts and streamlining have already occurred. Goldner Hawn bought AE in '06 and the typical time frame for a PE holding is 5-7 years, i.e. its just time to cash out. They bought in at $100M so even at the lower end of the valuation range, they've booked a healthy profit. With the sale of Loro Piana to LVMH last week, I'd imagine luxury company valuations are pretty rich right now which gives Goldner even more reason to sell. Unless Goldner has pulled a TXU, I'd imagine things will be business as usual after the sale.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post

rydenfan also brought up some good points. The other part of the equation is Paul. He has now taken a company that was on the decline and turned it around making it profitable and increasing market share. I really hope he stays on board instead of moving on to do the same for another company, which would be normal. Because of his Leadership and vision I think his shoes at AE would be hard to fill, pun not intended. 

 

Ron Rider and Paul exchanged comments about this back in May of 2010 on Ron's blog.

http://riderboot.com/2010/05/06/opinions-on-allen-edmonds-ceo-justification-for-non-us-boat-shoe-manufacturing/

 

Warning: Snip (Click to show)

 

Ron Says:
 
May 7, 2010 at 8:39 am
Hi Paul -
 
Don’t you have anything better to do than follow my blog!?!?!
 
Joking. For those that might look in on this, Paul and I have spoken numerous times about things in the past, and he has always been forthright in his replies and conversations. We don’t agree (I have offered some blunt assessments of his business that will remain private) on everything – and this is one example.
 
…..you work for Goldner-Hawn and your job is to build as much equity into the brand as possible so that they can stay to their publicly stated strategy of buying a company and selling it for a profit with-in 5-7 years. You guys are well past your expiration date and need to get things moving. All this is public info – or easily determined – by looking at GH website. While I know a little more than most, nothing here is news. You are doing your job well…far better than your predecessor…but the goal you are working towards is not to provide the best shoes for your customers, but the best financial results for your investors. We’ve all seen this movie before. Johnston & Murphy, Cole Haan, Florsheim, Rockport…the list goes on and on. 
 
<>
 
Paul Grangaard Says:
 
May 7, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Hi again, Ron –
 
I was alerted to your original post and had some time in Japan in the middle of the Tokyo night (jet lag), so I thought I’d respond. Integrity is extremely important both to me and to Allen Edmonds, so I have to admit I wasn’t too thrilled with the selling the Brooklyn Bridge analogy.
 
Anyway, as you know from our common involvement in the Ask Andy online community, I appreciate the web’s opportunities for direct dialogue with customers and anyone else interested in Allen Edmonds.
 
I’ll respond to your second post with some overarching comments. You ascribe such mercenary motives to Goldner Hawn, our majority owner, and by extension to me personally in my role. You’re misguided about both. As I’ve said in my own blog, business for me remains about people and is therefore personal. Do the right and fair things for the customers, the employees and the vendors, and the financials benefit. Focus purely on financial motives, and the business declines and ultimately will fail. Goldner Hawn willingly injected extra equity capital into this company last January to help sustain it through the Great Recession. Their investment timeline has been extended indefinitely. With their full support, our executive team’s multi-year goal is to build this company significantly, both in shoes and in other products consistent with serving our customers well and with what our brand stands for. This is why GH bought in the first place – to help take Allen Edmonds to new levels and, of course, also for their investors to be rewarded for success in doing that.

 

 

I tend to fall into this camp as well.  I seriously doubt that this is spelling the end of the company that we all enjoy so much.  It is in all likelihood just "business as usual" where companies are bought and sold, largely to the ignorance of the populace, and not much visibly changes.  Obviously exceptions to this abound, but I don't think it is fair to have a doomsday outlook on this.  It isn't as if this is the first time AE has been bought/sold.  


I would also contend that AE's business model doesn't really have much room for successful change in either direction, and thus, would make a bad investment for anyone seeking to buy them and change them.  

 

 In other words, if they increase their quality standards, prices will go up accordingly, which will cause them to start losing business to the other "high-end" shoe manufacturers that are more expensive (but still below $1,000).  Paul himself has said that he doesn't consider the Goodyear-welted shoe manufacturers at higher price points than AE to be his competition.  He considers his competition to be the cheaper, outsourced shoes that we all like to shun.  AE caters to people who spend more "practical" amounts of money on shoes (which I realize is subjective).  If they go higher-end, they will lose their grass-roots customer base of people who want and recognize quality, and are willing to invest in it up to a certain point, at the expense of gaining a smaller customer base of those who are willing to spend much more for smaller returns (insert all of the debates about whether Alden is much better than AE even though they are significantly more expensive).    

 

Going down in quality doesn't make much sense either.  The "cheap" men's shoe market doesn't need another company competing to sell dress shoes that are overpriced for what you get.  Johnston & Murphy, Florsheim, and Cole-Haan put out enough shoes and are large enough companies, that trying to compete with them is senseless in my opinion.  

 

Allen Edmonds fills a niche in the men's shoe market that has very little competition, which is why they are so successful.  They have some of the best customer service in the business, and their "no-frills" approach to providing a high quality product at the lowest price point possible appeals to a very large amount of people.  We all know that Paul has brought back AE from the brink of destruction by his methods just described, so why would a new investor buy them up and try to go back down the road towards what has been shown to be company suicide?  

post #25097 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgp001 View Post

Unlikely. AE is already controlled by a private equity company, which means the cuts and streamlining have already occurred. Goldner Hawn bought AE in '06 and the typical time frame for a PE holding is 5-7 years, i.e. its just time to cash out. They bought in at $100M so even at the lower end of the valuation range, they've booked a healthy profit. With the sale of Loro Piana to LVMH last week, I'd imagine luxury company valuations are pretty rich right now which gives Goldner even more reason to sell. Unless Goldner has pulled a TXU, I'd imagine things will be business as usual after the sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post

rydenfan also brought up some good points. The other part of the equation is Paul. He has now taken a company that was on the decline and turned it around making it profitable and increasing market share. I really hope he stays on board instead of moving on to do the same for another company, which would be normal. Because of his Leadership and vision I think his shoes at AE would be hard to fill, pun not intended. 

Ron Rider and Paul exchanged comments about this back in May of 2010 on Ron's blog.
http://riderboot.com/2010/05/06/opinions-on-allen-edmonds-ceo-justification-for-non-us-boat-shoe-manufacturing/
Warning: Snip (Click to show)

Ron Says:
 
May 7, 2010 at 8:39 am
Hi Paul -
 
Don’t you have anything better to do than follow my blog!?!?!
 
Joking. For those that might look in on this, Paul and I have spoken numerous times about things in the past, and he has always been forthright in his replies and conversations. We don’t agree (I have offered some blunt assessments of his business that will remain private) on everything – and this is one example.
 
…..you work for Goldner-Hawn and your job is to build as much equity into the brand as possible so that they can stay to their publicly stated strategy of buying a company and selling it for a profit with-in 5-7 years. You guys are well past your expiration date and need to get things moving. All this is public info – or easily determined – by looking at GH website. While I know a little more than most, nothing here is news. You are doing your job well…far better than your predecessor…but the goal you are working towards is not to provide the best shoes for your customers, but the best financial results for your investors. We’ve all seen this movie before. Johnston

I tend to fall into this camp as well.  I seriously doubt that this is spelling the end of the company that we all enjoy so much.  It is in all likelihood just "business as usual" where companies are bought and sold, largely to the ignorance of the populace, and not much visibly changes.  Obviously exceptions to this abound, but I don't think it is fair to have a doomsday outlook on this.  It isn't as if this is the first time AE has been bought/sold.  


I would also contend that AE's business model doesn't really have much room for successful change in either direction, and thus, would make a bad investment for anyone seeking to buy them and change them.  

 In other words, if they increase their quality standards, prices will go up accordingly, which will cause them to start losing business to the other "high-end" shoe manufacturers that are more expensive (but still below $1,000).  Paul himself has said that he doesn't consider the Goodyear-welted shoe manufacturers at higher price points than AE to be his competition.  He considers his competition to be the cheaper, outsourced shoes that we all like to shun.  AE caters to people who spend more "practical" amounts of money on shoes (which I realize is subjective).  If they go higher-end, they will lose their grass-roots customer base of people who want and recognize quality, and are willing to invest in it up to a certain point, at the expense of gaining a smaller customer base of those who are willing to spend much more for smaller returns (insert all of the debates about whether Alden is much better than AE even though they are significantly more expensive).    

Going down in quality doesn't make much sense either.  The "cheap" men's shoe market doesn't need another company competing to sell dress shoes that are overpriced for what you get.  Johnston & Murphy, Florsheim, and Cole-Haan put out enough shoes and are large enough companies, that trying to compete with them is senseless in my opinion.  

Allen Edmonds fills a niche in the men's shoe market that has very little competition, which is why they are so successful.  They have some of the best customer service in the business, and their "no-frills" approach to providing a high quality product at the lowest price point possible appeals to a very large amount of people.  We all know that Paul has brought back AE from the brink of destruction by his methods just described, so why would a new investor buy them up and try to go back down the road towards what has been shown to be company suicide?  

Well said, and let's hope the new investors are as clear minded as you are. We are all seeing stupid decisions that are been made all the time.
post #25098 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post


Well said, and let's hope the new investors are as clear minded as you are. We are all seen stupid decisions that are been made all the time.

 

That is quite true, unfortunately.  

post #25099 of 46526
I am hoping any potential buyer will be like the last buyer - realize the history and allure of the brand and also realize that changing that will destroy any value the brand has. The last buyers kept the history, didn't make drastic changes, and actually improved the brand's value. I'm hoping any new owners will continue down that path.

However, if the new owners decide to cheapen the brand, offshore production, and try to turn the brand into a cash cow for a few years before they let it die, I will never purchase another Allen Edmonds product.

Chris
post #25100 of 46526
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungSweet View Post
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

Daltons are nearly the same as the Long Branch.  One of the professional shiners at Nordstroms brushed, applied Cream, lightly brushed, applied wax, lightly brushed, and brought the Matt Finish of the boot to a soft Glow of shine.  Have worn them for serveral days with just light brushing.

 

SAVED $104 on a Nordstrom Price Match!

 

 

David-Do you mind if I ask how much you paid for this? and how much did it cost you to get the work done by the shiner at Nords?

 

 

 

These are the Long Branch, and they sell for $350.00.   Then a few weeks ago I emailed and AE Clearance price for $246.00 to the Manager of the Nordstrom's Shoes that I work with.  He priced match the boots for $246.00.

 

 

The other version of this great boot is the Dalton, which sells for $395.00 is now on sale at Nordstroms for approximately $259.00 to $279.

 

The Nordstoms Department Stores have a professional shoe shine station, and when you purchase in the store (or pick up in the store), they gave me a free professional shine.  Otherwise, the shine costs only $2.50 in an Nordstrom Department Store!

post #25101 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouldaville View Post


90+ degrees in July, I'm tempted to try again, but I'll probably just keep them out of fear of getting something worse. It really does have to be the perfect angle to catch.

 

Whenever a return and exchange is requested with AE - ask for the name of the MANAGER to make sure he/she personally inspects the replacement before shipping to you.  If not, then you run the risk of non-accountability.

 

Another option is a refund, and buy the item from a local Nordstrom Department store where the inspection is available.  My last purchase at Nordstroms was a special order than came into the store so they could insure the quality before I invested the time.

post #25102 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post

Ugh... Hopefully this impending sale of the firm doesn't affect their legendary customer service or quality. I wouldn't bet against that however... They'll probably cut corners and bank on the strength of the brand to coast a few years while production values go the way of Florsheim, Bostonian or Johnston and Murphy.

 

The potential sale of the stock equity does not spell BAD NEWS as another forum announced.  That thinking is silly.  The president of AE, which is a frequent poster here is a by-product to stock transitions - and a sale usually means some folks want to cash out on their stock to make a lot of money on a company that is earning a lot of money.


AE is also now opening stores in CHINA . . . which is an enormous move given the billion + people and market China represents.

 

I recall then Disney sold, and my stock split . . . and kept splitting, and splitting . . . so much so it earn me quite a lot.

post #25103 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

 

The potential sale of the stock equity does not spell BAD NEWS as another forum announced.  That thinking is silly.  The president of AE, which is a frequent poster here is a by-product to stock transitions - and a sale usually means some folks want to cash out on their stock to make a lot of money on a company that is earning a lot of money.


AE is also now opening stores in CHINA . . . which is an enormous move given the billion + people and market China represents.

 

I recall then Disney sold, and my stock split . . . and kept splitting, and splitting . . . so much so it earn me quite a lot.

 

Again, I tend to agree.  

post #25104 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

 

Scott, the Strands are on sale at Nordstrom's Department Store with a 33% discount . . . or around $229.00  Plus, you get a 100% refund or guarantee - even if you wear them for a few months - if the Nordstrom's Professional Fit does not work out for you.

 

Give the Nordstrom Manager your contact information, or send a private message to me for his info.

 

Nordstrom has changed to a "big box" store format. They are no longer superior customer service. This has been my experience. One of the Nordstrom sales people I am friends with said they cut her pay from $50k/year to $30/k year and put pressure on her to sell. She looks like she aged 10 years over the past 2 years from the stress.

 

In 2012 during a sale Nordstrom sold AE seconds to customers without saying they were selling seconds. I know because I purchased shoes and after wearing them twice they developed deep creases on the sides of the shoe and in the toe box. The leather on the side of the shoe looked like it was dried out and cracking. I mentioned this to a salesperson at Nordstrom and they said if you wear it even once they can't do anything.

post #25105 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upward View Post

 

Nordstrom has changed to a "big box" store format. They are no longer superior customer service. This has been my experience. One of the Nordstrom sales people I am friends with said they cut her pay from $50k/year to $30/k year and put pressure on her to sell. She looks like she aged 10 years over the past 2 years from the stress.

 

In 2012 during a sale Nordstrom sold AE seconds to customers without saying they were selling seconds. I know because I purchased shoes and after wearing them twice they developed deep creases on the sides of the shoe and in the toe box. The leather on the side of the shoe looked like it was dried out and cracking. I mentioned this to a salesperson at Nordstrom and they said if you wear it even once they can't do anything.

 

Sorry for your bad experience.  However, it is completely incorrect that they were secretly selling seconds.  Seconds are clearly branded with a "shoe" mark on the waist of the sole, from the factory.  If such a conspiracy were taking place, it would be coming all the way from the top.  Additionally, your experience constitutes a potential defect in the leather (I say potential because I can't see the shoe and many people blow creases out of proportion).  This can happen in a first quality shoe just as easily as it can in a second quality one.  Often, defects aren't discovered until the shoe is worn.  It's the nature of leather.  

post #25106 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaywhyy View Post

Apologies for the bad lighting. Just a quick picture of my current rotation minus some Sperry bucks. Well minus the Marlow tassels now as well, those were too uncomfortable for me and have been sold to fund some Alden 1493s. Not the most impressive collection, but I'm just a poor college student ha. All are AEs except the tassels. 


Which models are the middle two? The burgundy and suede
post #25107 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upward View Post

 

Nordstrom has changed to a "big box" store format. They are no longer superior customer service. This has been my experience. One of the Nordstrom sales people I am friends with said they cut her pay from $50k/year to $30/k year and put pressure on her to sell. She looks like she aged 10 years over the past 2 years from the stress.

 

In 2012 during a sale Nordstrom sold AE seconds to customers without saying they were selling seconds. I know because I purchased shoes and after wearing them twice they developed deep creases on the sides of the shoe and in the toe box. The leather on the side of the shoe looked like it was dried out and cracking. I mentioned this to a salesperson at Nordstrom and they said if you wear it even once they can't do anything.

 

Each Nordstrom Department Store has a Manager of the shoe department . . . who typically has over 12 years experience.  With exception - Sales Associates have been known to remark policies to customers that are incorrect and very misleading. 

 

Work with the MANAGER and you will not go wrong.  I spoke to the headquarter Manager in Seattle, and I spoke to the Manager in Spokane . . . and they BOTH stated on-the-record . . . "If our store professionally sizes and fits you to Allen Edmond shoes . . . and you develop issues with fit, toes, blisters, anything . . . even if you have worn them for six months . . . just return them for a full refund or exchange for a better fit or style".

 

For any forum member who wishes to verify this with the managers I spoke to . . . send me a private message for their contact information.

post #25108 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upward View Post

Why is Walnut not an office friendly color?
It's not as conservative as dark brown, black, or merlot/burgundy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upward View Post

Is merlot a more office friendly color  because it is darker?
IMO, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hohneokc View Post

However, if the new owners decide to cheapen the brand, offshore production, and try to turn the brand into a cash cow for a few years before they let it die, I will never purchase another Allen Edmonds product.

Agreed.
post #25109 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRob View Post

I bought black PA's at the beginning of the summer; I've been wearing them every three days or so since (rotating with dark brown PA's and some random Johnston & Murphys).

 

Just a few days ago the right shoe started rubbing against my right pinky toe in an excruciatingly painful way.  I haven't developed a blister because I don't walk much, but the shoe is too uncomfortable to wear and I don't know what could have made this happen all of a sudden.  I haven't changed socks or anything so I don't know why this has happened.  

 

Anyone have any ideas?  Will getting them stretched out at a cobbler help?

 

As mentioned, you can explore a local repair shop for a stretch job.  Or, if you purchased them at a Nordstroms Department Store where they professionally sized your feet to the correct "last" in the style you want . . . they will either refund or replace.

 

All my best,

 

David

 

post #25110 of 46526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian43 View Post

Which models are the middle two? The burgundy and suede

The punched cap toe derby might be the Clifton.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread