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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - Page 1335

post #20011 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post

Could be the Alden shell 994, albeit a very faded, and old, version.

 

Definitely shell, either the aforementioned Alden 994 or potentially the AE "Polo."  In either case, those are faded #8 or burgundy shell cordovan.

post #20012 of 48184

I'm going to have to disagree with some of you on the durability of shell, especially when it comes to scrapes. I have a pair of Alden shell LHS that I scratched on a barstool. No matter what I do to them, I cannot get the scrapes out. I tried a deer polishing bone, brushing, buffing, etc, but nothing works. I took them to B. Nelson shoes, and Nick told me there really isn't anything that can be done.

 

I also spilled a little kitchen grease on them, but didn't notice until several hours later. The grease left behind dark spots on the shoe. I tried buffing, brushing, etc. on those spots too. Nick also gave it a shot, but nothing worked.

 

If I had done either of the above on a pair of calf shoes, chances are, I could have gotten the stains out and/or polished over the stains and scrapes to the point where they would be unnoticeable.

post #20013 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with some of you on the durability of shell, especially when it comes to scrapes. I have a pair of Alden shell LHS that I scratched on a barstool. No matter what I do to them, I cannot get the scrapes out. I tried a deer polishing bone, brushing, buffing, etc, but nothing works. I took them to B. Nelson shoes, and Nick told me there really isn't anything that can be done.

I also spilled a little kitchen grease on them, but didn't notice until several hours later. The grease left behind dark spots on the shoe. I tried buffing, brushing, etc. on those spots too. Nick also gave it a shot, but nothing worked.

If I had done either of the above on a pair of calf shoes, chances are, I could have gotten the stains out and/or polished over the stains and scrapes to the point where they would be unnoticeable.

One could also try wax. To some it's heresy in the ministry of shell, but it'll fill in any scrapes or scuffs to the normal eye.
post #20014 of 48184

Brown Shell Townley's today:

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

Questions for everyone who owns AE Calfskin AND Shell Cordovan in the SAME STYLE:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

1)  I spoke to AE customer service and also their recrafting department and asked about the difference.  The first tip they offered me was that the SHELL CORDOVAN is built heavier, stiffer with a thicker hide (for durability) than the CALFSKIN shoes - and therefore the CALFSKIN shoes may feel more comfortable when directly comparing the same style in the SHELL CORDOVAN.  By nature, they said, the CALFSKIN is a softer leather and leans toward more of a comfortable fit.

 

2)  On the downside of the CALFSKIN, they mentioned it requires more care in prevention than the SHELL CORDOVAN - very much like an extremely fine 100% wool suit fine to the touch -  compared to a mixed wool suit that may be more durable. - and the CALFSKIN scuffs more than the SHELL CORDOVAN.  (With my new Saphir Products, I am less concerned about scuffing)

 

Therefore, I would like to hear from others who own BOTH the CALFSKIN and the SHELL CORDOVAN in the SAME AE STYLE - such as owning the Dalton in both Calfskin and Shell.  

 

a)  I'd like to know what your personal experience has been in FIT, COMFORT, and FEEL.  (I suspect you already know that the Shell Cordovan has been more durable - so that is not the point of my inquiry as much)

 

b)  For those who own both in the same style, have you been able to bring the Calfskin version to a similar elegance in shine that the Shell Cordovan's reputation has?  If not, how close have you been able to get the Calfskin to match the Shell Cordovan in shine?

 

c)  When comparing both of the shoes for creasing patterns, does the CALFSKIN have less creasing patterns than the SHELL CORDOVAN?  (Again, with the Saphir Products, many of the Calfskin creases can be greatly minimized in appearance)

 

d)  Has anyone purchased the SAME COLOR in the SAME STYLE in both CALFSKIN and SHELL CORDOVAN - so that one pair can be used in WINTER and the other in SUMMER?  (I read that the SHELL CORDOVAN wears warmer than the CALFSKIN, and depending where someone lives, it may be best to wear them at different temperatures of the year for comfort)

 

All my best,


David

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksfan View Post

 

I'll respond to each question / comment, if that's ok:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

1) Yes, out of the box, calfskin is typically softer and definitely stretches more.  The combination can make for a more comfortable shoe, at least for the first few wears.  Calfskin is definitely also lighter weight.  However, shell cordovan softens up over time, and can actually be even softer than a similar shoe in calfskin.  For example, my J. Crew shell cordovan cap-toe boots are even softer than my Cromexcel AE Bayfields now - Each is about 1.5 yrs old.  

 

2) The scuffing comment is interesting - because my shell shoes scuff just as much as my calfskin shoes, just differently.  In my experience, a clean and well-shined shell cordovan shoe will scuff very similarly to a polished and well-shined calfskin shoe.  It is in the abuse where shell cordovan really wins.  If you kick the bottom of a door, or rub the edge of your shoe on a concrete stair, etc... that would spell the end of a calfskin shoe.  Not so with shell cordovan.  

 

a)  On a few occasions, I have "traded up" from calfskin to shell cordovan.  This happened with the Grayson, Dalton, Macneil and Park Ave.  In each case, the shell cordovan version was initially tougher to break in, but after a few wears is easily as comfortable as the calfskin version.  I currently own both shell and calfskin in the tassel loafer (Grayson), longwing (Macneil) and Cap-toe (Park Ave).  In each case, I started with the calfskin version much earlier and when I got an alternative color, I opted for the shell version.  (I.E. calfskin version in black calf, burgundy / brown version in shell cordovan).  

 

b) A well-shined calfskin shoe will be more elegant than a well-shined shell cordovan shoe.  This is due to the thickness of the leather as well as differences in the characteristics of the shine.  Shell cordovan easily attains and retains a dull shine, but does not easily attain a high shine (think mirror shine or even the type of shine corrected grain leather has).  With time and patience, a calfskin shoe will shine better.  

 

c) The creasing patterns are similar, but the creasing itself is different.  Calfskin has "microcreases" shell gets "rolls."  See below: (burgundy shell Grayson, black calf Grayson, #8 Alden shell tassel loafer).  Note particularly the creasing on my left shoe on the two Graysons, exactly the same creasing pattern, but to my eye the actual creasing is much less apparent on the shell version.  

 

 

IMG-20120418-00328.jpg   

 

(note this pic of the Aldens was after 3 straight days of wearing, walking through airports...)

 

d) no - I have taken the attitude that when I want/need a new pair of shoes, I will get the shell cordovan version, unless none is available.  I always prefer wearing my shell shoes.  I do rotate my shoes by season, preferring boots in the winters and loafers in the summers.  However, I have found that some of my shell shoes do get "welts" when exposed to water - so for that reason if it is rainy / snowy / slushy out I either wear my chromexcel Bayfields, calfskin Grayson or Macneil, and/or I use Tingley overshoes.  This is simply out of my own striving to help my shoes last longer, particularly the leathers soles.

 

 

 

bucksfan as always did an outstanding job answering, and I agree with him on all points. With the exception of the personal preference that I prefer boots in the winter, which is half the year where I now live, and shoes in the summer with shell chukka's being an option all year long IMO.

 

Here is a side by side comparison of black calf Leeds on bottom with mircocreasing compared to a pair of burgundy shell Leeds in the middle. Both have had 2 sets of heels replaced on them so I think they have somewhat similar number of miles on them.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmejson View Post
Maiden voyage - brown Cliftons smile.gif

And they are looking good!

post #20015 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with some of you on the durability of shell, especially when it comes to scrapes. I have a pair of Alden shell LHS that I scratched on a barstool. No matter what I do to them, I cannot get the scrapes out. I tried a deer polishing bone, brushing, buffing, etc, but nothing works. I took them to B. Nelson shoes, and Nick told me there really isn't anything that can be done.

 

I also spilled a little kitchen grease on them, but didn't notice until several hours later. The grease left behind dark spots on the shoe. I tried buffing, brushing, etc. on those spots too. Nick also gave it a shot, but nothing worked.

 

If I had done either of the above on a pair of calf shoes, chances are, I could have gotten the stains out and/or polished over the stains and scrapes to the point where they would be unnoticeable.

for a heavy scrape, any type of leather can show a permanent mar. but for light scrapes, shell can be restored, where leather could oftentimes not be, not to mention the creasing you don't get with shell. 

 

see this video at 8:00 -

 

 

post #20016 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with some of you on the durability of shell, especially when it comes to scrapes. I have a pair of Alden shell LHS that I scratched on a barstool. No matter what I do to them, I cannot get the scrapes out. I tried a deer polishing bone, brushing, buffing, etc, but nothing works. I took them to B. Nelson shoes, and Nick told me there really isn't anything that can be done.

I also spilled a little kitchen grease on them, but didn't notice until several hours later. The grease left behind dark spots on the shoe. I tried buffing, brushing, etc. on those spots too. Nick also gave it a shot, but nothing worked.

If I had done either of the above on a pair of calf shoes, chances are, I could have gotten the stains out and/or polished over the stains and scrapes to the point where they would be unnoticeable.

Depends on what the scratches look like. If it's a gouge, where the surface of the leather is actually torn, then any material is going to suffer from that. While using my shell boots as real durable boots, they haven't gotten any gouges or surface tears, and that's from plenty of exposure to things that would destroy calf (exposed metal, scuffed on rocks, etc.) My calf shoes though, very often get surface tears on the toe just from the occasional bump, just a light tear to the grain and that's that, permanent.

For just scratches, well, this is going to be a subjective thing. When shell is scratched, the scratch can easily be buffed out 90%, but not 100%. I have tons of scratches on my shell boots, they appear as just lots of fine lines all over the place, especially after I give them a water brushing. For a quick fix, I lick my thumb and rub the scratch hard, usually blends it right into the shoe. The difference is that with calf or CXL, those scratches never get so indistinct, they always show as discolorations (though CXL can be rubbed out to some extent). You can wax over them if you'd like, but they are still scratched.

If you're looking for a leather that will end up looking 100% brand new always, well, you're never going to find that. Shell is much more durable. It isn't invulnerable.
post #20017 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediahound View Post

for a heavy scrape, any type of leather can show a permanent mar. but for light scrapes, shell can be restored, where leather could oftentimes not be, not to mention the creasing you don't get with shell. 

 

see this video at 8:00 -

 

 

 

I know this is nit-picking, but since you've said it several times, I just thought I'd make sure you know that shell is leather.  It may prevent confusion to people with less knowledge if you more correctly refer to the respective leathers as calfskin and shell cordovan, or whatever other leather may be in discussion (cowhide, horsehide, etc....)  

post #20018 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

I know this is nit-picking, but since you've said it several times, I just thought I'd make sure you know that shell is leather.  It may prevent confusion to people with less knowledge if you more correctly refer to the respective leathers as calfskin and shell cordovan, or whatever other leather may be in discussion (cowhide, horsehide, etc....)  


For that matter, all animal skins are leather.

post #20019 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by alloy13 View Post


For that matter, all animal skins are leather.

 

Yes, they can all be turned into leather.  Leather is a product made from an animal skin, which is the raw material. 

post #20020 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

Yes, they can all be turned into leather.  Leather is a product made from an animal skin, which is the raw material. 

But is shell actually animal skin? My understanding is that it is from a membrane (muscle) beneath the skin of a horse.

post #20021 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

But is shell actually animal skin? My understanding is that it is from a membrane (muscle) beneath the skin of a horse.

 

It is distinguished from horsehide being that it is primarily composed of fibrous flat muscle located beneath the hide itself.  However, this does not nullify it's status of being leather

post #20022 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj555 View Post

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

1)  As suggested - just post the series of numbers located inside the shoe.  (By the way, that is one of the best looking set of boat shoes I have seen)

 

 

I wrote AE, and they said they were an old Colby model that's been discontinued for a couple years.

post #20023 of 48184

I did a quick search and perused about a half-dozen definitions of leather, and all include reference to the "hide" or "skin" of an animal, which cordovan is not.

 

That said, it sure ly must rank as deeply contemplative navel-gazing to debate whether cordovan is properly described as 'leather' or not.  Far more important, IMO, to understand what makes it different from other types of 'leather' (in its origin, processing, appearance and properties) even if it can be so described.

post #20024 of 48184

I bought the clearance Stewarts - Can I get away with Light Tan Khaki Pants?

 

post #20025 of 48184
Quote:
Originally Posted by texastom View Post

I bought the clearance Stewarts - Can I get away with Light Tan Khaki Pants?

Of course you can!

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