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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - Page 1210

post #18136 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmdsimpson View Post

- Johnston and Murphy:
Georgetown captoe $375 (made in the US; a little more $ than AE; custom made): http://www.johnstonmurphy.com/product.aspx?c=1372&sc=1372&pid=21094
Hyde Park II $275 (probably made in India): http://www.johnstonmurphy.com/product.aspx?c=1372&sc=1372&pid=22178#tabProdInfo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

I had been aware of J&M's Georgetown captoe just from seeing it online.  The description of it seems to put it in the same quality realm as AE or Alden (give or take).  The other day I went into a brick and mortar and asked if they had one I could look at.  The salesman just looked at me and said, "no."  Then he paused for a second and said "We may have one in the back if you want to see one."  I said I would like to see it so that I could compare it's quality to the next tier captoes (which are the Hyde Park II you mentioned above), and are always out on the sales floor, and they are definitely made in India.  The guy went back and brought out a Georgetown for me to examine.  Appearance wise, I would place it in the Alden or perhaps Crockett & Jones realm for upper and welt finishing.  The sole is still stitched-aloft rather than closed-channeled.  They had a more beveled waist, reminiscent of a fiddle-back waist seen on extremely high end shoes, but it wasn't quite there.  It pretty much looked identical to an Alden or AE sole with a sculpted waist.  The sole edge and welt was definitely cleaner than what you see on a Park Avenue.  The leather upper quality was on par with Alden or AE.  They have a half socklining just like Alden and most English made Goodyear-welted shoes.

 

What about the J&M Melton? $165 seems like a good price for a Goodyear-welted shoe. MoneyWellSpent, since you've compared their shoes, I wonder what disadvantages this one has over the others. I've had friends ask for sub-$200 dress shoes, and I've always wondered if this one would be worth the price.

post #18137 of 53212
Wearing my McTavish Natural Tans first day to the office. Business casual here...(more on the casual side).
post #18138 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

 

What about the J&M Melton? $165 seems like a good price for a Goodyear-welted shoe. MoneyWellSpent, since you've compared their shoes, I wonder what disadvantages this one has over the others. I've had friends ask for sub-$200 dress shoes, and I've always wondered if this one would be worth the price.

 

The Melton is corrected grain with a finish that looks more like plastic than leather.  Also, it is using a foam insole covered by a thin piece of leather.  Essentially, it is a Goodyear-welted shoe using cheap, cemented shoe components that you find in Cole-Haan, Bostonian, Nunn-Bush, Kenneth Cole, and the list goes on...  It is made overseas as well.  It is better than those other brands being that it is Goodyear-welted, but that is about it.  If it were me, I'd hunt down a pair of Park Avenue seconds for less than $200.00, which isn't too difficult if you monitor the sales. 

post #18139 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCer View Post

Wearing my McTavish Natural Tans first day to the office. Business casual here...(more on the casual side).

 

Great looking shoes!

post #18140 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

I had been aware of J&M's Georgetown captoe just from seeing it online.  The description of it seems to put it in the same quality realm as AE or Alden (give or take).  The other day I went into a brick and mortar and asked if they had one I could look at.  The salesman just looked at me and said, "no."  Then he paused for a second and said "We may have one in the back if you want to see one."  I said I would like to see it so that I could compare it's quality to the next tier captoes (which are the Hyde Park II you mentioned above), and are always out on the sales floor, and they are definitely made in India.  The guy went back and brought out a Georgetown for me to examine.  Appearance wise, I would place it in the Alden or perhaps Crockett & Jones realm for upper and welt finishing.  The sole is still stitched-aloft rather than closed-channeled.  They had a more beveled waist, reminiscent of a fiddle-back waist seen on extremely high end shoes, but it wasn't quite there.  It pretty much looked identical to an Alden or AE sole with a sculpted waist.  The sole edge and welt was definitely cleaner than what you see on a Park Avenue.  The leather upper quality was on par with Alden or AE.  They have a half socklining just like Alden and most English made Goodyear-welted shoes. 

I noticed an interesting statistic on J&M's website where they say that it takes 115 steps to manufacter these shoes.  All of the other Goodyear-welted shoes claim that it takes approximately 200 steps (Allen Edmonds reports 212, John Lobb reports 190, all the others that I know of fall into this general area give or take).  I wonder how J&M is trimming off so many steps?  What are they leaving out?  Obviously these are a hollow echo of the former J&M Crown Aristocraft shoes that were made decades ago, but they seem like an ok choice for what they are. 

Anyway, I just found it interesting and thought I'd mention my observations for what they are worth. 

MoneyWellSpent, this is interesting. I used to think highly of J&M's made-in-the-USA shoes, so I'm hopeful that the Georgetown is high quality. It is odd that they cite only 115 steps.

I've never seen them in person, and I'm not surprised that they don't even show them in the store. They barely highlight these shoes at all on the website, and they only make them to order with no returns. It's like they don't want anyone to buy them! Good to hear of the apparent quality when you looked at them in person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

What about the J&M Melton? $165
seems like a good price for a Goodyear-welted shoe. MoneyWellSpent, since you've compared their shoes, I wonder what disadvantages this one has over the others. I've had friends ask for sub-$200 dress shoes, and I've always wondered if this one would be worth the price.

I am not sure, as they say it is Goodyear welted. So you have Georgetown, Goodyear welted and made in the USA for $375, next step down is Hyde Park II, which is same construction but made in India, and then Melton, which is ??? I know in the past J&M differentiated among the insoles and padding. Maybe that's the only difference between Hyde Park and Melton.

EDIT: MoneyWellSpent answered this as I was typing!
post #18141 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmdsimpson View Post


MoneyWellSpent, this is interesting. I used to think highly of J&M's made-in-the-USA shoes, so I'm hopeful that the Georgetown is high quality. It is odd that they cite only 115 steps.

I've never seen them in person, and I'm not surprised that they don't even show them in the store. They barely highlight these shoes at all on the website, and they only make them to order with no returns. It's like they don't want anyone to buy them! Good to hear of the apparent quality when you looked at them in person.
I am not sure, as they say it is Goodyear welted. So you have Georgetown, Goodyear welted and made in the USA for $375, next step down is Hyde Park II, which is same construction but made in India, and then Melton, which is ??? I know in the past J&M differentiated among the insoles and padding. Maybe that's the only difference between Hyde Park and Melton.

EDIT: MoneyWellSpent answered this as I was typing!

 

My impression is that they deliberately maintain a perception of exclusivity with these.  Much of the public out there (particularly people who were into their careers when J&M was making top notch shoes) still believes that J&M makes some of the world's best shoes.  People who are loyal to the brand and are under this old school impression will walk into the store to buy their shoes, and if the sales person percieves that they are the appropriate clientele then they may pitch them the Crown Aristocrafts as their best offering.  J&M quit making shoes of this quality altogether and then they brought them back in a lesser quality form.  My guess is that they were simply responding to the current trend of "Made in America" along with the classic men's styles becoming fashionable.  They seem to maintain a skeleton crew of people that make them in their Nashville factory, and if I were those people, I'd be ready to lose my job as soon as the "trends" are fading.

post #18142 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

My impression is that they deliberately maintain a perception of exclusivity with these.  Much of the public out there (particularly people who were into their careers when J&M was making top notch shoes) still believes that J&M makes some of the world's best shoes.  People who are loyal to the brand and are under this old school impression will walk into the store to buy their shoes, and if the sales person percieves that they are the appropriate clientele then they may pitch them the Crown Aristocrafts as their best offering.  J&M quit making shoes of this quality altogether and then they brought them back in a lesser quality form.  My guess is that they were simply responding to the current trend of "Made in America" along with the classic men's styles becoming fashionable.  They seem to maintain a skeleton crew of people that make them in their Nashville factory, and if I were those people, I'd be ready to lose my job as soon as the "trends" are fading.

 

I may have misrepresented the history above regarding the closing and re-opening of their Nashville factory.  I started searching google after I said that, and this is the source that I think I was remembering:  http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?84917-Johnston-amp-Murphy-Custom-Select-well-actually-MTM-Shoes&p=796575#post796575  Perhaps they never actually closed the factory, and instead they just whittled it down to a skeleton crew.  Either way, their output of Crown Aristocraft shoes is extremely small, and they are much lower quality than they were even up to the early 1990's.  I still wouldn't be totally surprised if they closed it at some point in the future. 

post #18143 of 53212

Reposting this as it took a while to clear the system and subsequently got buried... would love any and all responses:

 

Hey all,

 

I'm new to this and I've been planning on getting my first pair of AE for a while now. I'm thinking to get seconds and take advantage of the jeffersonville 20% off deal, I just can't decide what exactly to get.

 

I was thinking to start with either Strands or McAllisters, in either Walnut or Bourbon (I think I prefer the Strands in Walnut and the McAllisters in Bourbon). My choices from the outlet's inventory include those two for $269 and $274, or the Brooks Bros Walnut Strand for $199. Is there a large difference between the Brooks Bros strand and the normal AE strand? I've read about the poron insole and the different sole, but I'm wondering if those truly make a big difference, especially for someone who has never had a pair of AEs before. Also, does AE recraft the Brooks Bros version too?

 

In the end I might just go for the Bourbon McAllisters... but the Brooks Bros Strand seems like a good deal if the quality is on par.

 

Thanks!

post #18144 of 53212
I just got an email from one of my contacts at the shoe bank who said that he heard AE was opening up a Chinese production shop for their shoes sold in China...has anyone else heard this?? Apparently the Chinese have levied a new freight tax to discourage imports from rising American manufacturing?
post #18145 of 53212
Josiah at the Jville store.
post #18146 of 53212
Since my first foray into Allen Edmonds, the Long Branch, I have become increasingly self-conscious about the Eccos I've been wearing these many years.

For my next pair, I'm thinking Strands. A couple questions:

11.5 D (which could probably have been 11E) in Long Branch = ? in Strand? 11 E?

Does anyone have a good pic of the Bourbon IRL? I feel like the pic on the AE site doesn't accurately represent the actual shoe, compared to an ad in the Harry Rosen magazine I recently saw.

Many thanks.
post #18147 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeviMay View Post

Since my first foray into Allen Edmonds, the Long Branch, I have become increasingly self-conscious about the Eccos I've been wearing these many years.

For my next pair, I'm thinking Strands. A couple questions:

11.5 D (which could probably have been 11E) in Long Branch = ? in Strand? 11 E?

Does anyone have a good pic of the Bourbon IRL? I feel like the pic on the AE site doesn't accurately represent the actual shoe, compared to an ad in the Harry Rosen magazine I recently saw.

Many thanks.

Have you done a google images search?
http://www.google.it/search?um=1&hl=en&client=safari&tbm=isch&q=allen+Edmonds+bourbon+strand&spell=1&sa=X&ei=0AZaUaPIL8WsPMTjgYgH&ved=0CDcQvwUoAA&biw=1024&bih=660
post #18148 of 53212

I hadn't... Thanks!

Any advice on sizing, compared to the Long Branch? According to the site's last guide, the Strand is longer and narrower. Shy of trying them on in person, any idea how much longer and narrower?
post #18149 of 53212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeviMay View Post

Since my first foray into Allen Edmonds, the Long Branch, I have become increasingly self-conscious about the Eccos I've been wearing these many years.

For my next pair, I'm thinking Strands. A couple questions:

11.5 D (which could probably have been 11E) in Long Branch = ? in Strand? 11 E?

Does anyone have a good pic of the Bourbon IRL? I feel like the pic on the AE site doesn't accurately represent the actual shoe, compared to an ad in the Harry Rosen magazine I recently saw.

Many thanks.

There are pictures in this thread. I even posted some. Just click on a recent picture and then click "gallery view" to see all the pictures in this thread, starting with the most recent. I hope that helps.
post #18150 of 53212
Sorry- I can't help with the sizing, but I'd encourage you to not be too shy to get fitted. I'm sure that will give you the best possible results!
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