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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - Page 1049

post #15721 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

You are preaching to the choir.  I don't claim to understand their reasoning for the products that "make the cut."  I just know that the people on here seem to be in agreement that things need to get better in the traditional offerings (while producing the flashy ones at the same time for the crowd that likes them).  I guess I just try to remember that StyleForum currently has 132,743 members, and only a small fraction of those subscribe to this thread or even wear AE's.  So even though we feel like we have a loud voice on here, the reality is that we are only a small fraction of the sales that AE is looking at as the "World's Largest Cobbler." 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmdsimpson View Post




I don't like the short cap toe personally, but hate the shoe, not the player. It's personal preference, and I think it's fine.

And it is the iconic AE shoe. So why change it?

But I wonder why they sell so well. It could be that it is the short cap toe look that is appealing; but I also suspect that it is because the Park Avenue and its variants are the only conservative dress shoe that is Goodyear welted and high quality at its price point. Really, they have no competition.

Rather than changing the Park Avenue, I would like to see them add additional models with a longer cap toe, maybe on a different last. But maybe they are worried about taking away from the Park Avenue, and they already have "the" American cap toe dress shoe for the mainstream, so why fix what isn't broken? Maybe another cap toe would be perceived as diminishing the flagship shoe in some way.

 

Referencing my post above from a few days back is relevant to this discussion as well I think.  There are countless people wearing AE's around the world, and a few harsh critics in this thread will never derail the prevailing opinion on what is an acceptable business shoe, especially one that has been around for decades.  And frankly, I don't think it should change it.  Like you said, don't fix what isn't broken.  Current trends and thinking will shift soon enough, and people will move on to something else that they are judging.  The Park Avenue will keep cranking away as the quintessential American business shoe. 

post #15722 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post

Quick, everyone start posting about the need for AE to come out with dark brown shell Dalton's, an 8 last cap toe (with a well placed cap line), a functioning website, and better photo's of the shoes.

What am I missing?

 

I think you're missing walnut shell options. They don't have enough of those (none right now).

post #15723 of 46473
Oh, and I would be all over a pair of brown shell short wings based on the Dalton boot.
post #15724 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post


In the US-store distribution market, this is true.

On a global scale, there are a number of better options for less money.

For instance:

http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&colset=1&styleid=91&shoeid=448&brandid=6&catid=42&oldcolid=418&stype=0&colourid=3374

note the correct toe cap placement:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 



$272 shipped at today's exchange rate...with a combination heel. Quality is excellent, likely better than AE at the price point. Thats a full $60 short of AE's list price.

If you want a higher end model:

http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&shoeid=2023

Made by Cheaney, $360 delivered.

 

I really don't mean to sound snarky, I'm just curious since this discussion has always baffled me a bit when it arises periodically.  I'm hoping to understand a bit better.  Above, you describe this shoe as "correct toe cap placement."  Do you have a reference for what "correct toe cap placement" is?  Is it conceivable that there is no such thing as correct placement, or heaven forbid, that AE's placement is correct and all the others are wrong?  Obviously this is conjecture, so take it as such.  I get the "fashion trend" mentality, but fashion trends are fleeting.  Here today, gone tomorrow.  The Park Avenue has transcended fashion trends and endured through time because it is timeless.  Are you looking at it from a fashion perspective, which means you may decide you like it a year from now when the "trends" are different, or do you just not care for it on a personal level (subjective), which doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the shoe itself (objective)?   

post #15725 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post

And you are not alone.

The PA - whether in spite of, or because of, its captoe placement - is, year in and year out, one of AE's best sellers. So apparently many men actually like it ......

 

This. I sipped on the SF Kool-Aid for awhile so hesitated getting the PA thinking the captoe may be too short. During the recent sale picked up the BB version of the PA for $129.50 to use in bad weather, figured couldn't go wrong. I was shocked, in real life the cap toe is just about perfect IMO. In fact I ordered the black shell version last week once I saw how nice it was. For the perf captoe may go with the Alden for BB however. Not because of the cap toe, but because of a review on the BB website I read last week when I was doing research. The very first review is more than a year old but very good. Then I noticed the name at the top which is sevenfoldtie and almost pulled the trigger right there, that was good enough for me. But the AE 5 last fits me like a glove and is a known so will see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbtaylor View Post

Family photo

 

 

Back row: Shell Dalton, Malvern, Amok, McTavish, Westchester, Hale, Park Ave

 

Middle row: RL Singleton, Neumok, Neumok, Players, Patriot, Fifth Ave, Williams

 

Front Row: RL Sanderson, Neumora, Park Ave, Lasalle, Elgin, McAllister, Strand

 

Any suggestions on future additions?  I am thinking more Shell for sure

Outstanding!! Cambridge would be my next one in that collection but that is just me. And of course a Dundee in shell.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post

Oh, and I would be all over a pair of brown shell short wings based on the Dalton boot.

 

In cigar shell then I'd flip my C&J for RL Marlow in cigar shell. And the Dundee in cigar shell. And a basic plain toe suede shoe PLEASE! I have enough wingtips LOL.

post #15726 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

I really don't mean to sound snarky, I'm just curious since this discussion has always baffled me a bit when it arises periodically.  I'm hoping to understand a bit better.  Above, you describe this shoe as "correct toe cap placement."  Do you have a reference for what "correct toe cap placement" is?  Is it conceivable that there is no such thing as correct placement, or heaven forbid, that AE's placement is correct and all the others are wrong?  Obviously this is conjecture, so take it as such.  I get the "fashion trend" mentality, but fashion trends are fleeting.  Here today, gone tomorrow.  The Park Avenue has transcended fashion trends and endured through time because it is timeless.  Are you looking at it from a fashion perspective, which means you may decide you like it a year from now when the "trends" are different, or do you just not care for it on a personal level (subjective), which doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the shoe itself (objective)?   

Ok, fine, "correct" was not the right word. Preferred may have been better.

That said, the park ave is basically the only plain toe oxford that AE makes (non independence). Given AE's position as really the only widely available, moderately priced American shoe maker, when combined with the PA as the only plain toe oxford, AE probably could have put the toe cap wherever the hell it wanted, and guys would still buy it. 1) Because they need a plain conservative shoe, and this is what is handed to them: 2) because they don't care; 3) because they don't know better.

The toe cap location makes a stubby shoe look even more so. It ruins whatever elegance exists. It doesn't make the shoe hideous in the way a duck bill toe would, but when there are other options, I don't see why one would go with a PA. I can't even recommend them to new employees at my firm.
post #15727 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

In the US-store distribution market, this is true.

On a global scale, there are a number of better options for less money.

For instance:

http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&colset=1&styleid=91&shoeid=448&brandid=6&catid=42&oldcolid=418&stype=0&colourid=3374

note the correct toe cap placement: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

$272 shipped at today's exchange rate...with a combination heel. Quality is excellent, likely better than AE at the price point. Thats a full $60 short of AE's list price.

If you want a higher end model:

http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&shoeid=2023

Made by Cheaney, $360 delivered.

Quad, I thought about this and some other brands (Meermin for those more adventurous). But you're dealing with shoes that you can't try on in person and brands that have no real presence in the US. AE's are the readily accessible option in the US. When you factor in risk of having to ship back overseas, it's a tough sell.

Actually (and I hope any Allen Edmonds employees reading this will cover their eyes), the alternative used to be Johnston & Murphy, before they went to overseas production, with a noticeable slip in quality. I applaud AE for resisting that approach (and yes, the Dominican Republic is not the US, but they've handled it so much better) and keeping their quality high. Still the only game in town for this price, quality, and made in the USA.
post #15728 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

that toe cap flat out sucks

Very helpful thanks for your input ..
post #15729 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post


Ok, fine, "correct" was not the right word. Preferred may have been better.

That said, the park ave is basically the only plain toe oxford that AE makes (non independence). Given AE's position as really the only widely available, moderately priced American shoe maker, when combined with the PA as the only plain toe oxford, AE probably could have put the toe cap wherever the hell it wanted, and guys would still buy it. 1) Because they need a plain conservative shoe, and this is what is handed to them: 2) because they don't care; 3) because they don't know better.

The toe cap location makes a stubby shoe look even more so. It ruins whatever elegance exists. It doesn't make the shoe hideous in the way a duck bill toe would, but when there are other options, I don't see why one would go with a PA. I can't even recommend them to new employees at my firm.

 

All fair enough.  I think you hit the nail on the head here actually.  Since there aren't any true rules, AE just did what they did (possibly semi-arbitrarily), and the results follow as you listed regarding why everyone buys it no questions asked.  I see the issue on some PA's and not others.  The cap looks fine to me on a foot that is moderately balanced on length/width, and I think it looks fine on long/narrow feet.  On short/wide feet I see the stubbyness as much more pronounced. 

post #15730 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

I really don't mean to sound snarky, I'm just curious since this discussion has always baffled me a bit when it arises periodically.  I'm hoping to understand a bit better.  Above, you describe this shoe as "correct toe cap placement."  Do you have a reference for what "correct toe cap placement" is?  Is it conceivable that there is no such thing as correct placement, or heaven forbid, that AE's placement is correct and all the others are wrong?  Obviously this is conjecture, so take it as such.  I get the "fashion trend" mentality, but fashion trends are fleeting.  Here today, gone tomorrow.  The Park Avenue has transcended fashion trends and endured through time because it is timeless.  Are you looking at it from a fashion perspective, which means you may decide you like it a year from now when the "trends" are different, or do you just not care for it on a personal level (subjective), which doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the shoe itself (objective)?   

 

There is a contemporary element to it, but it is also an issue of simple aesthetics.  The issue is that the placement of the toe cap on many Park Avenues is too far from the laces, which makes the rounded toe look even stubbier.  By moving the toe cap more to the laces, it would make the rounded toe look sleeker and more elegant. 

 

I also agree that part of the Park Avenue's success is due to the absence of competition in this price range from a quality goodyear welted shoe. That's changing as the Meermin Hiro last captoe and Andrew Lock's benchgrade captoe are both around the $225 price range.  As big of an AE fan as I am (and a Park Avenue owner to boot), I tend to recommend these two for black captoes over the Park Avenue. 

 

Pictures of both below with a few C&J's thrown in to illustrate the better placed captoe.

 

Andrew Lock:

 

700

 

 

Park Avenues:

 

Park Avenues.JPG

 

 

C&J:

 

Peal.jpg

 

 

C&J (not a fair comparison due to last shape, but I throw it in anyways):

 

700

 

 

Meermin (not mine):

 

 

Edit:  my shoes are all 12D's.

post #15731 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmdsimpson View Post


Quad, I thought about this and some other brands (Meermin for those more adventurous). But you're dealing with shoes that you can't try on in person and brands that have no real presence in the US. AE's are the readily accessible option in the US. When you factor in risk of having to ship back overseas, it's a tough sell.

Actually (and I hope any Allen Edmonds employees reading this will cover their eyes), the alternative used to be Johnston & Murphy, before they went to overseas production, with a noticeable slip in quality. I applaud AE for resisting that approach (and yes, the Dominican Republic is not the US, but they've handled it so much better) and keeping their quality high. Still the only game in town for this price, quality, and made in the USA.

 

This is what keeps me as a loyal customer of AE.  That, along with their customer service that I enjoy having as a back-up in a pinch. 

post #15732 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlequin782 View Post

I cant for the life of me see how people can fly off the handle over them the way they do...and then the same people turn around and jizz all over pics of the Fifth Street, which to my eye, has the exact same proportions as the Fifth Ave/Park Ave...It makes no sense.

Is this true? I don't have both shoes to compare, but I thought the Fifth Streets cap toe was longer.
post #15733 of 46473
Dude, no one cares what you think. This is the "Allen Edmonds appreciation thread". Go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

Ok, fine, "correct" was not the right word. Preferred may have been better.

That said, the park ave is basically the only plain toe oxford that AE makes (non independence). Given AE's position as really the only widely available, moderately priced American shoe maker, when combined with the PA as the only plain toe oxford, AE probably could have put the toe cap wherever the hell it wanted, and guys would still buy it. 1) Because they need a plain conservative shoe, and this is what is handed to them: 2) because they don't care; 3) because they don't know better.

The toe cap location makes a stubby shoe look even more so. It ruins whatever elegance exists. It doesn't make the shoe hideous in the way a duck bill toe would, but when there are other options, I don't see why one would go with a PA. I can't even recommend them to new employees at my firm.
post #15734 of 46473

I should have added Strands as well, as they have a well placed cap toe and look significantly sleeker (with an assist from the broguing):

 

700

post #15735 of 46473
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmdsimpson View Post


Rather than changing the Park Avenue, I would like to see them add additional models with a longer cap toe, maybe on a different last.

They had that, it was called the Soho. It was built on the 0 last, and it had a much longer toe cap. I have a pair in saddle brown and wear them all the time. It's a great shoe. I would buy them in black and any other color they were offered in if AE made them again.
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