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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc... - Page 4272  

post #64066 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roycru View Post


You might be able to get brown Dainite soles from B Nelson in New York:

http://www.bnelsonshoes.com/dainite.asp


 

This is fifteen different kinds of awesome! Great knowledge drop!
post #64067 of 70737


I gather from the above link and other posts on the forum that B. Nelson is the best shoe repair shop in New York City.  Does anyone know the best shoe repair shop in Los Angeles?  Is there anything close here?

post #64068 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohneokc View Post


Sweet! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #64069 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose22 View Post

You're missing the point -- though I appreciate the videos. I've seen them before, but for some reason shoemaking is one of the handcrafts I really like to watch!

The point is, a goodyear welt is a goodyear welt. It doesn't matter whether it's mechanized or not. Calling something "handwelted" and not saying what kind of welt is used is like calling a car "hand painted" and not bothering to describe what color.

To continue to play the devil's advocate here, the strength and quality of a goodyear welt is such that many hand makers still employ the welt even if they are hand stitching the shoe. At that point, you're really only worrying about cosmetic issues... like hiding the stitching way under the edge, or doing one of the many fancy stitching patterns that I've seen like the braids or... I don't know what to call them all. But I've seen several different styles in videos where they are still attaching a sole via -- you guessed it, a goodyear welt.

Also, if you're talking about bespoke shoes costing thousands of dollars on the AE Appreciation forum, you're comparing toyotas and ferraris.

Did you even read my post in response to your earlier comment yesterday? It sure sounds like you didn't, as you still seem insistent on calling shoes "Goodyear-welt" that simply aren't. They aren't even comparable, and all the these handsewn methods for making shoes predate Goodyear-welting.

The "braided stitching" you are talking about is Norvegese or Bentivegna construction. Hand-welting is not equitable with Goodyear-welting. Goodyear didn't invent welted footwear, and he didn't even invent Goodyear-welting, so please stop giving him credit for shoe constructions that are centuries old. Goodyear bought the patent rights to the machine invented by Auguste Destouy in 1869. Destouy had invented the machine in the early 1860's.

Hand-welting dates back to at least the 1500's.
post #64070 of 70737

Playing Devil's Advocate is one thing.  Trolling is another.  As it appears there isn't a lot of progress being made in that discussion, can I suggest y'all drop it?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLeslieS View Post
 


I gather from the above link and other posts on the forum that B. Nelson is the best shoe repair shop in New York City.  Does anyone know the best shoe repair shop in Los Angeles?  Is there anything close here?

Also B Nelson...       ;)     (he does mail order)

 

 

 

 

 

 

But seriously, it would probably help if you stated what work you want done.

post #64071 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by H Nguyen View Post

Anyone ever do a price adjustment and ask for it in gift card form? I used an amex offer that was expiring soon. Heard that AE is usually good about adjusting prices from their sales but would need to get refund in some other form to keep the offer.

I think you should be able to do this without a problem. If AE are willing to do a price adjustment, all they need to do at the register is first ring up your refund, then charge you for a gift card for a net cost of $0. AMEX won't see the refund portion because your credit card won't be involved in the transaction.
post #64072 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohneokc View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Sweet! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

What leather is n those Longra branches?

post #64073 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose22 View Post

You're missing the point -- though I appreciate the videos. I've seen them before, but for some reason shoemaking is one of the handcrafts I really like to watch!

The point is, a goodyear welt is a goodyear welt. It doesn't matter whether it's mechanized or not. Calling something "handwelted" and not saying what kind of welt is used is like calling a car "hand painted" and not bothering to describe what color.

To continue to play the devil's advocate here, the strength and quality of a goodyear welt is such that many hand makers still employ the welt even if they are hand stitching the shoe. At that point, you're really only worrying about cosmetic issues... like hiding the stitching way under the edge, or doing one of the many fancy stitching patterns that I've seen like the braids or... I don't know what to call them all. But I've seen several different styles in videos where they are still attaching a sole via -- you guessed it, a goodyear welt.

Also, if you're talking about bespoke shoes costing thousands of dollars on the AE Appreciation forum, you're comparing toyotas and ferraris.

Did you even read my post in response to your earlier comment yesterday? It sure sounds like you didn't, as you still seem insistent on calling shoes "Goodyear-welt" that simply aren't. They aren't even comparable, and all the these handsewn methods for making shoes predate Goodyear-welting.

The "braided stitching" you are talking about is Norvegese or Bentivegna construction. Hand-welting is not equitable with Goodyear-welting. Goodyear didn't invent welted footwear, and he didn't even invent Goodyear-welting, so please stop giving him credit for shoe constructions that are centuries old. Goodyear bought the patent rights to the machine invented by Auguste Destouy in 1869. Destouy had invented the machine in the early 1860's.

Hand-welting dates back to at least the 1500's.

 

So welting, which to identify, is the strip that is added outside the shoe(for ease of conversation) on top of the sole used to be used prior to the machine method(goodyear or whatever).  Blake does not use a welt however that is stitched directly to the midsole correct and that too is machine based? So shoemakers actually would use a welt as we are discussing by hand prior to the invention of machines? 

 

I found this in regards to shoemaking in the 1600's "By the 1600s, leather shoes came in two main types. 'Turn shoes' consisted of one thin flexible sole, which was sewed to the upper while outside in and turned over when completed. This type was used for making slippers and similar shoes. The second type united the upper with an insole, which was subsequently attached to an out-sole with a raised heel. This was the main variety, and was used for most footwear, including standard shoes and riding boots.[1]"

 

Thanks @MoneyWellSpent as I always enjoy learning more and appreciate you taking the time to always post detailed answers.

post #64074 of 70737
Really interesting, gents, particularly the historical perspectives.
post #64075 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose22 View Post

@yanagi
Then why are all the videos I watched on how shoes are made saying they're using the goodyear welt?

I don't know. Maybe you only watched videos that used goodyear welting. Maybe you watched some videos from non-U.S. shoemakers whose languages translate handwelting as "goodyear by hand." There are many possible reasons why the videos you watched all said goodyear welting. This isn't a valid argument that there's no difference between handwelting and goodyear welting.

I gave you a link to a post from a professional who is a member here at SF and who explained the difference between handwelting and goodyear welting, so you don't have to take my word for it that they are not the same. But why take anyone's word for it? See for yourself. If you really think there's no difference, then in the second video I showed you, Marcell Mrsan should apply some white tape, similar to what you saw from the AE factory tour, to the insole by hand. He doesn't. Instead, he cuts the insole in a certain way. You need to do that for handwelting; you don't need to do that for goodyear welting.
Quote:
And, as an aside, don't people spend lots of money on romantic notions? Better or otherwise, it most certainly is a factor. There's a great deal of cachet to relatively unimportant crap in all kinds of niche market manufacturing, where it is quite obvious. But cachet, romantic notions, carry weight whether they matter greatly or not. You may think that the extra strength from a welt that can't be machine replicated matters, but someone might just think that it's cool his shoe was stitched up by an old fashioned cobbler and be willing to pay for the extra labor hours based on that notion alone. Sure, it could be stronger, but at a certain point the value comes in the perception of what it is worth.

Like I said, whether the difference matters is debated, and often quite acrimoniously. I would certainly agree that if I were to post here and say "AE sucks, go buy real handmade shoes," that I would be making off topic posts and baiting others. But that is not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that there are differences between benchgrade, handgrade, and handmade; you shouldn't conflate them; and it's not an insult to AE to say the distinctions should not be blurred.
post #64076 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

What leather is n those Longra branches?

Dark Brown Grain - style 6021.

Chris
post #64077 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohneokc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

What leather is n those Longra branches?

Dark Brown Grain - style 6021.

Chris

Very red looking in the photo - I dig that.

post #64078 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

So welting, which to identify, is the strip that is added outside the shoe(for ease of conversation) on top of the sole used to be used prior to the machine method(goodyear or whatever).  Blake does not use a welt however that is stitched directly to the midsole correct and that too is machine based? So shoemakers actually would use a welt as we are discussing by hand prior to the invention of machines? 

I found this in regards to shoemaking in the 1600's "By the 1600s, leather shoes came in two main types. 'Turn shoes' consisted of one thin flexible sole, which was sewed to the upper while outside in and turned over when completed. This type was used for making slippers
 and similar shoes. The second type united the upper with an insole, which was subsequently attached to an out-sole with a raised heel. This was the main variety, and was used for most footwear, including standard shoes and riding boots
.[1]
"


Thanks @MoneyWellSpent
 as I always enjoy learning more and appreciate you taking the time to always post detailed answers.

Yes, all of that is correct. smile.gif
post #64079 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post
 

Also B Nelson...       ;)     (he does mail order)

 

But seriously, it would probably help if you stated what work you want done.

 

Nothing specific right now.  I just wanted to know whether traditional craftsmanship was alive and well in L.A.

post #64080 of 70737
Bleecker Streets in Bob's chili for my PC PoD. Can't wait for real boot weather!
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