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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc... - Page 3875  

post #58111 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfixit View Post
 

there is no way AE is intentionally creating or ignoring the volume of seconds.  the materials are no less expensive and i'm assuming they don't pay people less when producing a second.  yes, it allows customers to get a lower entry point, but they wouldn't need to charge nearly as much for firsts if they didn't have to significantly mark down so many seconds.  most of us are waiting for sales and buying pairs under $200.  once you get a decent pair of seconds, it is hard to pay 100% more for firsts.  this is not a desirable scenario for a business. i've paid full price for exactly one pair of more than 15 AEs.  i've paid full price for all but one of 7 Aldens at over $700 a pop. 

I am not saying they are doing it intentionally, only that there is less incentive than one might think to create an error free production process. If they cut out the 2nds and then are able to lower the price point, they risk devaluing the brand and losing out to competitors on perceived value. Essentially what they are doing now, possibly by accident, though I think by this point they will have run the numbers, is creating a loss leader (though they are still making considerable profit on 2nds) and encouraging more buyers into their product line.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mry8s View Post
 

 

 

A company that can eliminate defects and reduce rejects will save money over one that has many defects and rejects. Think about two AEs, one that produces flawless shoes and little to no rejects using almost the same techniques used now but with some improved process flow and another AE that is run the way they are now. Both are producing the same rough quantity of products using the same raw materials and more-or-less the same production line. The first has the choice to sell some of their offerings at a lower cost to provide a value option for outlets and the shoebank if they want. The other has no choice but to sell the rejected shoes cheaper .

 

In my experience, a good production process that eliminates end of the line (or late stage) rejects is always cheaper to run than one that has a lot of rejects. It just takes some modest investment in time and money up front to nail down your processes.

I agree with the sentiment of your post, just not the actual example. There is a cost associated with becoming the error free AE that you have not allowed for. The nature of that cost is undefined and therefore skews the result. Again, I agree with the spirit of your post though.

 

My guess is that AE has there production set up close to exactly how they want it. Even with my limited LEAN/SixSigma training, I am confident I could review their processes and make an appreciable dent in their error rate. However, my original point was that perhaps they have chosen to not tighten their manufacturing tolerances to the point that it would kill off the 2nds/ outlet business, might cost a sum of money that is unpalatable, require other changes to business practices that are unwanted at this time. This is clearly speculation, of course.

 

AE could fix their error rate if they wanted to. Of that, I have no doubt. The reason they have not done so is the only unknown.

post #58112 of 70737

Incidentally, if someone is looking for help with process mapping/ improvement, logic and reasoning or has an over funded think tank, I am available at reasonable rates. No guarantees on outcome, of course :spam: 

post #58113 of 70737
Re: AE QC, it seems like this conversation comes up every 6 months. Yes, there are issues, though for most posters of styleforum, I daresay acceptable standards are much higher. How could they not be, when there are gloriously drool worthy threads devoted to Edward Green, Vass, St. Crispins, etc. however, we still want rock bottom prices and discounts wherever possible. I have a few pairs of AEs that receive compliments from MC afficionados who own much nicer brands. And other pairs that, whole obviously seconds, I still enjoy wearing.

Many of us wring our hands and concern troll Paul and his management team. Meanwhile, the company is experiencing record sales and has unmatched Customer aftercare.

And so it goes...
post #58114 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoosensuits View Post

Anyone encounter a sales associate who refuses to take back a pair of seconds? admittedly they show some signs of wear however this is all from test driving on office carpet. Absolutely never worn outside. I think it's a unrealistic to expect no wear on the outsole from wearing on carpet; the friction will always remove some of the outsole finish. Not sure what recourse I have- she and her manager are claiming that they are worn beyond saleability. I disagree; they were worn a total of maybe 3 hours over the course of a week, absolutely never worn outdoors.

Advice appreciated.
And how'd you deal?

To be honest, wearing them for 3 hours sounds like "worn" to me. I have never "tried on" a pair of shoes for 3 hours or to the point that I have produced wear on the sole. Another member asked you to post pictures and that would be very helpful in giving us perspective to offer advice or opinions to you.

post #58115 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppercorn78 View Post

Re: AE QC, it seems like this conversation comes up every 6 months. Yes, there are issues, though for most posters of styleforum, I daresay acceptable standards are much higher. How could they not be, when there are gloriously drool worthy threads devoted to Edward Green, Vass, St. Crispins, etc. however, we still want rock bottom prices and discounts wherever possible. I have a few pairs of AEs that receive compliments from MC afficionados who own much nicer brands. And other pairs that, whole obviously seconds, I still enjoy wearing.

Many of us wring our hands and concern troll Paul and his management team. Meanwhile, the company is experiencing record sales and has unmatched Customer aftercare.

And so it goes...

I hope my posts didnt come across as being critical of AE. I think they represent excellent value for both 1st and 2nd quality and have few true competitors. I am impressed that they have positioned themselves so well in the market place.

 

I have been on the receiving end of truly unbelievable CS from AE and am quite a supporter. My recent speculation on AE's business practices have no bearing on that opinion.

post #58116 of 70737
New topic!

Anybody have the burgundy shell macneils?Just ordered a pair, hoping they become my favorite pair as they will be my first pair of shell. Pics or reviews?
post #58117 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchidiot View Post

Thanks! I actually prefer this shade of burgundy shell. Though I have to admit te darker burgundy shell works better for the strands.

I believe your Graysons are the 8297, which are corrected grain leather. Mines, which are the 8287 burgundy shell cordovan, are much darker.
post #58118 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcman311 View Post

What bothers me the most is how they try and pass off some obvious seconds as firsts. That should not happen. Its ok to have seconds, everyone makes mistakes but own up to it. I shouldnt have to go through x amount of "firsts" to get an acceptable pair. Those x shoes should get checked and shipped to an outlet. Dont pass on qc to the consumer.


I wonder about that too.  Coming at it from another angle, I bought a pair of Bourbon Daltons on my lunch break with the idea of deciding on them at home.  The brogueing on the side of one of the shoes was wrinkled, so I took them back for an excahnge.  I've dropped in twice to look around and check on the status of the new pair, and both times a salesman comes out with my old pair thinking that my shoes are in.  That's understandable, but I wonder what they are going to do with that first pair?  The first salesman said they would just keep them in stock, but It obviously has my name on it, like it is set aside for some reason.  I would think they would have sent them to the Shoebank, as it has been a few months now.  They seem like the definition of seconds.

post #58119 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb43 View Post

New topic!

Anybody have the burgundy shell macneils?Just ordered a pair, hoping they become my favorite pair as they will be my first pair of shell. Pics or reviews?

 

Great shoe, I owned a pair in both burgundy and brown shell at one point but sold them both due to sizing issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #58120 of 70737

I think somebody out there might get a kick out of this:  The Mora 2.0 has caught my eye.  As of 2 weeks ago, I just rolled with the conventional wisdom around here that "only girls have buckles on their shoes".  My dad and my brother would disown me. You can probably throw my mom in that category.  My wife said the shoes reminded her of Duckie from Sixteen Candles.  I had to look this up, and it doesn't seem flattering. I guess I don't really need shoes to sit in the corner by myself, but I still want them.

post #58121 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Dente View Post

I think somebody out there might get a kick out of this:  The Mora 2.0 has caught my eye.  As of 2 weeks ago, I just rolled with the conventional wisdom around here that "only girls have buckles on their shoes".  My dad and my brother would disown me. You can probably throw my mom in that category.  My wife said the shoes reminded her of Duckie from Sixteen Candles.  I had to look this up, and it doesn't seem flattering. I guess I don't really need shoes to sit in the corner by myself, but I still want them.
Haha! Yeah, the first time I wore my Neumora to a job, the other musician asked if I were dressing up as a pilgrim for Thanksgiving! I still love them though.
post #58122 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

I hope my posts didnt come across as being critical of AE. I think they represent excellent value for both 1st and 2nd quality and have few true competitors. I am impressed that they have positioned themselves so well in the market place.

I have been on the receiving end of truly unbelievable CS from AE and am quite a supporter. My recent speculation on AE's business practices have no bearing on that opinion.
Lol, no offense taken here. I certainly am no fanboy, so critique of a company with whom I have no relation other than as frequent customer is no big deal. I was just kind of musing about how in the 3 years I've been participating in this thread, the QC discussion seems to be cyclical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Dente View Post


I wonder about that too.  Coming at it from another angle, I bought a pair of Bourbon Daltons on my lunch break with the idea of deciding on them at home.  The brogueing on the side of one of the shoes was wrinkled, so I took them back for an excahnge.  I've dropped in twice to look around and check on the status of the new pair, and both times a salesman comes out with my old pair thinking that my shoes are in.  That's understandable, but I wonder what they are going to do with that first pair?  The first salesman said they would just keep them in stock, but It obviously has my name on it, like it is set aside for some reason.  I would think they would have sent them to the Shoebank, as it has been a few months now.  They seem like the definition of seconds.

They may still technically be in spec. Who knows. You still have the right to return unworn merchandise even if it's still in spec.
post #58123 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb43 View Post

New topic!

Anybody have the burgundy shell macneils?Just ordered a pair, hoping they become my favorite pair as they will be my first pair of shell. Pics or reviews?
I wore mine for the first time today. Pictures are in this thread a page or two back. Great shoes and an underutilized last in my opinion.
post #58124 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb43 View Post

New topic!

Anybody have the burgundy shell macneils?Just ordered a pair, hoping they become my favorite pair as they will be my first pair of shell. Pics or reviews?
Yup. The most classic shell shoe there is, really. Ordered them the day Paul G. implemented the no-MTO-fee program a few years ago. Love 'em.

Welcome to your next footwear obsession. Shell is dangerous stuff.


post #58125 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEgoiste View Post

I believe your Graysons are the 8297, which are corrected grain leather. Mines, which are the 8287 burgundy shell cordovan, are much darker.
My grayson are shell cordovan.


AE has finished their burgundy shell differently over the last couple of years thus the difference. Also every batch of shell appears to be quite different especially obvious after the finishing has been removed.
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