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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc... - Page 3874  

post #58096 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post
 
Imagine what would happen if AE fixed their manufacturing to a 1% exception rate. The shoebank would disappear, the outlets would disappear and they would need to create an entirely new entry level line if they wanted to retain their 2nds customer. And that is not to say that a new line would be a successfull strategy. 2nds represent "value" to a lot of buyers.
 

 

 

A company that can eliminate defects and reduce rejects will save money over one that has many defects and rejects. Think about two AEs, one that produces flawless shoes and little to no rejects using almost the same techniques used now but with some improved process flow and another AE that is run the way they are now. Both are producing the same rough quantity of products using the same raw materials and more-or-less the same production line. The first has the choice to sell some of their offerings at a lower cost to provide a value option for outlets and the shoebank if they want. The other has no choice but to sell the rejected shoes cheaper .

 

In my experience, a good production process that eliminates end of the line (or late stage) rejects is always cheaper to run than one that has a lot of rejects. It just takes some modest investment in time and money up front to nail down your processes.

post #58097 of 70737
Would a suede McGregor in bitter chocolate be too dark for summer? What would it pair with?
post #58098 of 70737
Nope
post #58099 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post



Unfortunately, CS is not a substitute for QC. There's a reason why almost every firm in the world would like to keep their quality failures internal - AE, on the other hand, seems to view their customers as something of an outsourced QC department.

 


I agree with you that CS is not a substitute for QC. However, the large number of seconds has created a marketplace for the outlets. Basically AE has created an entry level line for consumers who would perhaps find the $385 price unreachable but $249 and below in their budget. By getting them comfortable with the product at a lower price, those purchasers may eventually move up to retail, or at least 1st quality buyers.

Imagine what would happen if AE fixed their manufacturing to a 1% exception rate. The shoebank would disappear, the outlets would disappear and they would need to create an entirely new entry level line if they wanted to retain their 2nds customer. And that is not to say that a new line would be a successfull strategy. 2nds represent "value" to a lot of buyers.

I am not saying that they are doing this on purpose, but I'll bet they sell a hell of a lot more shoes the way things are now than if they fixed their qc issues and stopped selling 2nds.

It's certainly a way to operate, though I recall all sorts of "six sigma" talk when the holding company bought in. I actually went to the Port Washington store last year. I was relatively impressed by the quality of the 2nds I saw, until the clueless (but friendly) sales lady informed me they were firsts! Suffice it to say, I wasn't impressed.
post #58100 of 70737
I think an important point is how they are defining a "reject." In 6 sigma terms it's typically defined by the customer. The question here then becomes, to bdavo's point, does AE actually structure some of their work flows and processes to produce outlet quality shoes (not technically a reject because it falls w/in the outlet customers specification limits). It's entirely possible
post #58101 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsmusic1 View Post

I think an important point is how they are defining a "reject." In 6 sigma terms it's typically defined by the customer. The question here then becomes, to bdavo's point, does AE actually structure some of their work flows and processes to produce outlet quality shoes (not technically a reject because it falls w/in the outlet customers specification limits). It's entirely possible

Did all those GMTO boots get sold off as seconds just to make the SF guys happy? Of course not. AE isn't purposely making crap, though you might be on to something with the idea that most of their customers don't care.
post #58102 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joenobody0 View Post



Unfortunately, CS is not a substitute for QC. There's a reason why almost every firm in the world would like to keep their quality failures internal - AE, on the other hand, seems to view their customers as something of an outsourced QC department.

 


I agree with you that CS is not a substitute for QC. However, the large number of seconds has created a marketplace for the outlets. Basically AE has created an entry level line for consumers who would perhaps find the $385 price unreachable but $249 and below in their budget. By getting them comfortable with the product at a lower price, those purchasers may eventually move up to retail, or at least 1st quality buyers.

Imagine what would happen if AE fixed their manufacturing to a 1% exception rate. The shoebank would disappear, the outlets would disappear and they would need to create an entirely new entry level line if they wanted to retain their 2nds customer. And that is not to say that a new line would be a successfull strategy. 2nds represent "value" to a lot of buyers.

I am not saying that they are doing this on purpose, but I'll bet they sell a hell of a lot more shoes the way things are now than if they fixed their qc issues and stopped selling 2nds.

It's certainly a way to operate, though I recall all sorts of "six sigma" talk when the holding company bought in. I actually went to the Port Washington store last year. I was relatively impressed by the quality of the 2nds I saw, until the clueless (but friendly) sales lady informed me they were firsts! Suffice it to say, I wasn't impressed.
Port Washington shouldnt have firsts. It is an outlet. Some displays *might* be firsts...
post #58103 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsmusic1 View Post

I think an important point is how they are defining a "reject." In 6 sigma terms it's typically defined by the customer. The question here then becomes, to bdavo's point, does AE actually structure some of their work flows and processes to produce outlet quality shoes (not technically a reject because it falls w/in the outlet customers specification limits). It's entirely possible

Excellent point. We will never be privy to the data, but seems to me there are too many seconds floating around for this not to be per design.
post #58104 of 70737
Anyone encounter a sales associate who refuses to take back a pair of seconds? admittedly they show some signs of wear however this is all from test driving on office carpet. Absolutely never worn outside. I think it's a unrealistic to expect no wear on the outsole from wearing on carpet; the friction will always remove some of the outsole finish. Not sure what recourse I have- she and her manager are claiming that they are worn beyond saleability. I disagree; they were worn a total of maybe 3 hours over the course of a week, absolutely never worn outdoors.

Advice appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post


Yup.

And how'd you deal?
post #58105 of 70737
What bothers me the most is how they try and pass off some obvious seconds as firsts. That should not happen. Its ok to have seconds, everyone makes mistakes but own up to it. I shouldnt have to go through x amount of "firsts" to get an acceptable pair. Those x shoes should get checked and shipped to an outlet. Dont pass on qc to the consumer.
post #58106 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfo2010 View Post
 

Anybody out there with a pair of Townley's in 9.5D.  I wish they still made them!!!!!!!

actually, yes.  i should have gotten a 10D.  i love them but they are too small for me.  they've been worn maybe 4 times.  PM if interested.

post #58107 of 70737

there is no way AE is intentionally creating or ignoring the volume of seconds.  the materials are no less expensive and i'm assuming they don't pay people less when producing a second.  yes, it allows customers to get a lower entry point, but they wouldn't need to charge nearly as much for firsts if they didn't have to significantly mark down so many seconds.  most of us are waiting for sales and buying pairs under $200.  once you get a decent pair of seconds, it is hard to pay 100% more for firsts.  this is not a desirable scenario for a business. i've paid full price for exactly one pair of more than 15 AEs.  i've paid full price for all but one of 7 Aldens at over $700 a pop. 

post #58108 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsmusic1 View Post

These are all BEAUTIFUL but, I'm with you Watch, those Graysons are outstanding!
Thanks! I actually prefer this shade of burgundy shell. Though I have to admit te darker burgundy shell works better for the strands.
post #58109 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_International View Post

Gentlemen,

While placing an order at the Riverhead outlet yesterday, I inquired as to the availability of certain RL-branded shoes, namely the RL Singleton loafer. I was informed that there was no record of seconds in this shoe, in any size. The SA opined that AE may have sold them all off. Can anyone verify this information? The RL Singleton is a great shoe, even better when they can be had at seconds pricing.

 

I emailed one of the outlets last month asking about RL shoe availability in my size, and the reply stated that they don't really have much RL stuff anymore (but no further explanation as to why).

post #58110 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppercorn78 View Post

i had some minor striping on my shakers, but after a few rounds of Renovateur, it disappeared, along with most of the rest of the burnishing. frown.gif

 

I'm assuming you're talking about a pair of Shaker Heights?  Which color were they?  

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