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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc... - Page 3611  

post #54151 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JezeC View Post

comparing Vass to AE is just simply unfair.

So if you went to buy a pair of trousers from J. Crew, you would be ok with a small but obvious stain on the fabric or a pull on the stitching simply because they are J. Crew and not Tom Ford?

Looking at the picture of the first pair of Carlyles you rejected, a more suitable analogy would be returning those J. Crew trousers because a thread at the end of a seam wasn't trimmed close enough, so it was sticking out the end of a pant leg. Technically a flaw, but one you could solve on your with a pair of scissors and 2 seconds of your time.
post #54152 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
 

Now for a question of my own - I actually posted this in a separate thread but will repeat it here.  I measure a 7.5D but usually shoes are elongated to the point where I go with a 7D.  My width is between C and D.  I have tried on almost all the lasts and have kind of figured out what length and width works in each.  My biggest problem has always been length - too long and my legs ache after any moderate amount of walking.  Too short and my toes are smashed in to the point where my big toes hurt after a short period.

 

But, what sometimes shows up is on my right foot, the joint at the base of my big toe is somehow aggravated by the shoe, to the point where it puffs/swells up and results in excruciating pain.  Unfortunately this doesn't show up until I wear the shoe for a full work day, like 10+ hours at once.  My Daltons produced a killer pain in this joint area at first.  I wound up wearing them with the thickest socks I could find (like wool hiking socks), enduring crazy amounts of pain, and then finally switching back to dress socks.  This seems to have worked, although not 100%.  I just started to really wear my Jermyns and the pain in that joint is back, stronger than ever, to the point where I am dying to take them off as soon as I get home, as I can't stand them for another minute.  I tried the thick socks approach, followed by thin socks, and it seems to be working, so far.

 

What is it that causes this - is it that the lasts aren't good for me?  The lengths and widths seem ok.  Is it stiff leather?  Instep?  Or something else entirely.  Curious to hear Mr. Size 15's perspective, if he is around.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatszu View Post
 


I think width may be too narrow for you. When you step forward, the foot slides forward in the shoe, and the forefoot expands. The shoe may fit fine when your foot is off the ground, but the foot may need more room in the front when you walk.  I experienced similar problems and going up in width solved the problem. Shoes should not be uncomfortable when you walk in them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post
 

 

Is Mr. Size 15 in reference to me? haha

 

I agree with @gatszu. The width may be too narrow for you. It can feel okay but then as your feet swell during the day they can start to become tight. Plus certain foot types will drop in the arch (pronating) and over the day the front of your foot can become irritated by the hitting close to the front. It is always best to try the shoes on at the end of the day or at least late afternoon to factor in the swelling. If you are having a problem due to this, using a width larger can help to fix the problem. If they are a bit wide at that point, you can always use a thicker sock or insert a leather insole or tongue pad to make up for the difference in fit. 

 

You also need to think about what has happened when you go down a 1/2 in length. That now changes the width of the shoe. If you are a 7.5D and move down to a 7 in length, you need to get a 7E to keep the same overall width/volume. In the end, the Brannock device is only a guideline, because each company's lasts vary in size. Even the lasts by AE vary in much more than just the toe shape. They have completely different fits if you haven't noticed this by trying a bunch of the different styles already.

 

 

If you are having a problem with your big toe joint (1st Metatarsal-Phalangeal Joint) you could have a jamming that is happening at the joint. Have you tried to move your big toe when barefoot and compared your range of motion (ROM) between your two feet. If you have decreased ROM on one foot more and that one is what is causing more pain, that can be the problem. 

 

It is possible that the lasts can be the problem, because certain shapes just don't work for certain foot types. The instep size can be a problem for some people but only if you have a really high instep, which usually won't affect the big toe joint. 

 

Think about those few things and let me know what you notice. I can advise in a few other things from there if that helps.

 

I'm sure others would agree in that you could even take a few pics wearing the shoes and post them on here for us to comment on the apparent fit. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
 

 

This is some really good information, appreciate it a lot.  I'm sure it's nothing like what you go through, but stores don't carry much below size 8, so I guess I sort of have ended up with what I thought was as good as I could get.  I did try a 7E in the Park Ave, and it turns out my Dalton is a 7E (not sure how I didn't realize that).  Anyway, the Park Aves fit like clown shoes, flopping all over the place.  I had the pain with the Daltons, but after maybe like a week and a half of wear with super thick wool/acrylic socks, when I now go back to them with something like gold toe socks, the pain is gone although I still feel some pressure at that same spot (joint at the base of my right big toe).  The problem is that these shoes are definitely wider than I would like in the heel.  I can lace them very very tight but it isn't the fit I would prefer.  I wonder what I would have thought if I went with a D.

 

I do always try the shoes at the end of the day and they seem to fit, the problem only shows up after walking/wearing for an extended period.

 

With the Jermyn (and with the Grayson), I found the 97 fit to be a little strange.  As it extends out, it becomes wider and wider to the point where the heel is much wider than the front.  As much as I would benefit from the E width, I think the fit in the heel would be ruined - even with the D width the heel is almost too wide for me; I don't think I could accommodate anymore.  Not a big fan of using heel pads and things like that, and I don't think thicker socks would be able to make up the fit really either.  If I had to go that route I could see myself leaving these in my closet and not using them again.  Not to mention the fact that I don't have this problem at all with my left foot.

 

Guess it's not an instep thing.  No, no decreased range of motion - although wow is that thing swollen now.  I remember breaking in my Redwing Beckmans like this, using ice, etc. which was far more painful, and I swore that if I could get through that I could get through anything.  Not sure if I mentioned, but I have a bunch in the 65 last which don't cause this problem but unfortunately there aren't any loafer/slip-ons that on that last.  It's probably a combination of the last and width.  Now that I think about it some more, even my Grand Caymans had this effect to some extent, although not to the level of the Jermyn.  I had been eyeing the Westchester; maybe that's not such a great idea.  I'll see how it goes - as much as I like the 65 last lace-ups I am really a loafer guy.  I consider my Luccas (I have the leather and the suede) to be like my holy grail in terms of fit and I'm cautious about wearing them out too quickly. 

 

No problem at all. I am not the only one who has a tough to fit foot. @random-adam has one that is almost as tough as mine. That is why we are all here. We want to learn what we can from each other and then give back to others. We are the team of shoe fanatics of all ages, sizes, and shapes. 

 

Since you are a size that they do carry, you can go to a store and ask them to have so many different sizes and widths in the various lasts that you desire. The problem is that feet are not just one size. That is the reason why companies like AE and Alden made combination lasts to fit tighter around the heel. Unfortunately those lasts aren't even enough for everyone. I would first compare just lace-up shoes and boots because the lacing allows the looser and tighter fits, where a slip-on/loafer does not. Some people like me, can not wear them at all. It just comes down to foot shape. I have a pair and only wear them at the most casual times in the summer because they are too wide and get horrible creases, especially around the heel. Most people with more narrow heels need another width more narrow to accommodate the lack of support around the ankle region.

 

You also may need to think about which compromises you would rather make. You first need to find the proper length for each last that you can truly use. Make sure you have enough room past your longest toe. (The "rule of thumb" is usually the best way, even though many people don't seem to follow it), and then make sure that the ball of your foot is at the widest part of the shoe, because that is where they bend and it is actually the most important measurement to help the shoe mold to your foot over time. This is where the shank under the foot is factored in because that is the support for your foot but if too far past it can cause foot problems or if too short it just may not do its job.  

 

 

Once you have the proper size in each last that you like and feel may actually fit your foot (sizes can vary from each last), then you want to factor in which width will work for you in each of those lasts. Since you seem to have a greater difference between your forefoot width and heel width you probably need to compromise in one of two ways:

 

The one is to get the proper width to fit your heel that may be a little tight in the front, so you can go to a cobbler or a pedorthist (someone who went to school to learn about making and modifying shoes, insoles, orthotics, etc) to modify the width in the problem spots with shoe stretchers or other means that I will not go too much into at this point. (There are quite a few options that they have which can work wonders because many of them work with people having major orthopedic problems like some of my patients.)

 

The other is to get the width that fits your forefoot the best but is a bit wide on the heel. For that you may need to consider using heel or tongue pads to take up the room that you can't fill / push your foot to the back of the shoe. You also could consider a type of sock like a boot sock, which has a much thicker material just around the heel and bottom of the foot to fill up that area, which can help the fit there. I actually have used a pair of boot socks under a thin pair of dress socks to fill up the area that I can't fill around my heel. I have also used the various pads in other shoes. They all can help to make things better and for some people, they actually make the shoe more comfortable from the extra padding that is now in use.

 

I know that you as well as many others aren't a fan of using the change of socks or various pads, but sometimes you have to either try them out, just deal with the problems of the shoes, or be willing to pay more money to try out higher end shoes that may fit your feet better. In my opinion, the biggest problem for people is finding the actual size that they need in a last, and finding lasts that actually have a shape that truly works with their feet. In the end, I bet most will at least give those cheap options a shot when they see how few options there really are to have nice shoes.

If you would consider the most expensive way, which is getting higher end or even custom shoes, I do have many contacts around the world, who would be willing to work with you to make you something. Quite a few of them have stuff written about them here on Styleforum. I know of ones from $350-400 up to over $10,000 a pair, with various levels of aesthetics and quality. Some of the less expensive ones can look just as good as AE. 

 

I hope that helps and please let me know if you or anyone has more questions. I'm a shopaholic plus since I'm in this part of the medical field, this is a passion of mine, especially when it comes to tough to fit feet. In the end, fit is the most important, and when you find a good fit like you haven't had before, it completely changes your whole day. People don't think of how important your feet and ankles are to the rest of your body until they have problems. 

post #54153 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugger View Post


They don't inspect them before they go out the door. That's how. I'm waiting on my third replacement Carlyles.


My understanding is their business is really booming and have thus increased production quite a bit. I'd imagine that their error rate then increases but is still relatively low. Not saying it's acceptable but I think that's the rationale.

post #54154 of 70737
post #54155 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Dente View Post

Doing this from the phone isn't working so well, but here is the comparative picture of the other side of both boots.

An update:  I emailed AE customer service and they said it was a defect.  My wife said take them back, and the salesman at the AE store said it would bother him too; but when I looked at the non-defective boot, it just sealed the deal.  I thought people may be interested in what the AE salesman said.  He said 3 of the 7 stores he called had Dalton Bourbons that were defective in some way.  According to him my only option was to order a new pair from AE and wait 4 weeks. Supposedly they will be checked for defects.  I will just consider them "custom made".

 

I thought the wrinkling in the detailing looked like the leather piece was too big and had to be squished together to fit.  the salesman called it "air bubbles".

post #54156 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Dente View Post

An update:  I emailed AE customer service and they said it was a defect.  My wife said take them back, and the salesman at the AE store said it would bother him too; but when I looked at the non-defective boot, it just sealed the deal.  I thought people may be interested in what the AE salesman said.  He said 3 of the 7 stores he called had Dalton Bourbons that were defective in some way.  According to him my only option was to order a new pair from AE and wait 4 weeks. Supposedly they will be checked for defects.  I will just consider them "custom made".

I thought the wrinkling in the detailing looked like the leather piece was too big and had to be squished together to fit.  the salesman called it "air bubbles".

Yeah, that happens when the matching pieces of upper and luning aren't cut identically, or stitched together straight.

It's also possible that it was a bad cut of hide, like belly, which can be unpleasantly wrinkly.
post #54157 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacktasticGDogg View Post

Wearing the trunk show MTO natty MacNeils today. I'm really enjoying these.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Quote:
Originally Posted by NWTeal View Post

Walnut shell daltons today. 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Great Light Colored Wingtips guys. Both of these are terrific!
post #54158 of 70737

Hey guys, first post - I credit this thread with convincing me to get some Allen Edmonds.

I bought a pair of Dalton seconds and just received them, and since I'm not yet very knowledgeable on shoes I wanted to know if the two defects I spotted more or less immediately were worth worrying about. For $200 as long as it's cosmetic/not too bad I don't really mind, I'm only worried about durability issues. The first photo was the one I was more worried about. 

Thanks.

 

 

post #54159 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by antb29 View Post

Hey guys, first post - I credit this thread with convincing me to get some Allen Edmonds.
I bought a pair of Dalton seconds and just received them, and since I'm not yet very knowledgeable on shoes I wanted to know if the two defects I spotted more or less immediately were worth worrying about. For $200 as long as it's cosmetic/not too bad I don't really mind, I'm only worried about durability issues. The first photo was the one I was more worried about. 
Thanks.

Both are purely cosmetic. The first one is unfortunately very, very common with AE. They can't seem to figure out how to connect the welt consistently. I have some pairs that have perfect welts, and others that look like they were connected with a hatchet. It seems that your chances are about 50/50 of receiving a pair with at least one poor welt.

The second photo....I have no idea but my guess is whatever that is..is why they were $200, since AE has no problem selling shoes with the issues in your first photo as "first" quality.

My advice...if either issue bugs you at all, return them. If not...enjoy!
post #54160 of 70737

To those wondering about the next 2nds sale.  credit goes to SF member Kael84:

 

I am pretty new to this forum, but I have learned a ton from reading the different posts throughout.  I just thought this would be a good place to put this information I just found out.  I have been looking to pick up some Allen Edmonds factory seconds, and next week they are doing 15% off all factory seconds, and some styles have even bigger discounts.  The style I was looking into will be $149.  So i just thought I would put this out there for anyone interested.  Have a good one!

post #54161 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugger View Post


Both are purely cosmetic. The first one is unfortunately very, very common with AE. They can't seem to figure out how to connect the welt consistently. I have some pairs that have perfect welts, and others that look like they were connected with a hatchet. It seems that your chances are about 50/50 of receiving a pair with at least one poor welt.

The second photo....I have no idea but my guess is whatever that is..is why they were $200, since AE has no problem selling shoes with the issues in your first photo as "first" quality.

My advice...if either issue bugs you at all, return them. If not...enjoy!

Great, I will definitely keep them then. The second issue doesn't bother me at all, it's almost invisible when the shoe is tied. Out of curiosity, I would really like to know what caused it though. I've never seen anything like it and I tried to look for similar pictures online, to no avail. 

post #54162 of 70737
Another data point: I purchased two olive neumoks during this last sale. I selected the better of the two evils. The pair i sent back had horrible double stitching in multiple areas. I had thought about giving a pair to my father as a gift, but even at $147, they were horrible.

The pair I kept also has poor stitching, but nothing as blatant as the returned pair. I had just figured that since the neumok was a "casual" model, that the attention to detail wasn't as sound ad their classics.

Maybe this is not the case. But I'm not complaining. My neumoks fit like a glove, are amazingly comfortable, and I feel like I stole them from AE at the price I paid. If this was my first buy with AE, and at full price, I don't think I would have ever bother to try again.

But in know better! smile.gif
post #54163 of 70737
My increasing impression is that AE's final inspection process exists in name only, even among the MTO's. Even Dale a/k/a Watchidiot a/k/a The Most Esteemed Grand Poopaw of the GMTO Program received recently an MTO with a nail sticking out of the sole what looked to be s good half inch. And while none of the recent trunk show screw ups have been as bad, the fact they exist at all on what should have been, without exception, show piece shoes (and many are) causes me to conclude final inspection - meaningful final inspection - is not a priority of management. A 60 second inspection would have caught everyone of these errors.
post #54164 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
 

That's exactly my point. To the gentleman who spent almost $400 on a pair of AE firsts (which is what AE charges and expects most customers to pay), I would be completely dissatisfied with a shoe that had a glaring imperfection such as a tear in the topmost layer of the leather, or burnishing that detracts from the overall look. 99% of the population would shudder at the idea of spending that much on a shoe, let alone one that you have to "settle" for imperfections.

 

If you are buying seconds, however, I agree that the standards should be more lenient. @Rugger's analogy about Hondas and Bentleys was completely on point.


I agree with this. First quality shoes should be first quality. Tears or sloppy burnishing are unacceptable, especially at this price point.

post #54165 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No problem at all. I am not the only one who has a tough to fit foot. @random-adam has one that is almost as tough as mine. That is why we are all here. We want to learn what we can from each other and then give back to others. We are the team of shoe fanatics of all ages, sizes, and shapes. 

 

Since you are a size that they do carry, you can go to a store and ask them to have so many different sizes and widths in the various lasts that you desire. The problem is that feet are not just one size. That is the reason why companies like AE and Alden made combination lasts to fit tighter around the heel. Unfortunately those lasts aren't even enough for everyone. I would first compare just lace-up shoes and boots because the lacing allows the looser and tighter fits, where a slip-on/loafer does not. Some people like me, can not wear them at all. It just comes down to foot shape. I have a pair and only wear them at the most casual times in the summer because they are too wide and get horrible creases, especially around the heel. Most people with more narrow heels need another width more narrow to accommodate the lack of support around the ankle region.

 

You also may need to think about which compromises you would rather make. You first need to find the proper length for each last that you can truly use. Make sure you have enough room past your longest toe. (The "rule of thumb" is usually the best way, even though many people don't seem to follow it), and then make sure that the ball of your foot is at the widest part of the shoe, because that is where they bend and it is actually the most important measurement to help the shoe mold to your foot over time. This is where the shank under the foot is factored in because that is the support for your foot but if too far past it can cause foot problems or if too short it just may not do its job.  

 

 

Once you have the proper size in each last that you like and feel may actually fit your foot (sizes can vary from each last), then you want to factor in which width will work for you in each of those lasts. Since you seem to have a greater difference between your forefoot width and heel width you probably need to compromise in one of two ways:

 

The one is to get the proper width to fit your heel that may be a little tight in the front, so you can go to a cobbler or a pedorthist (someone who went to school to learn about making and modifying shoes, insoles, orthotics, etc) to modify the width in the problem spots with shoe stretchers or other means that I will not go too much into at this point. (There are quite a few options that they have which can work wonders because many of them work with people having major orthopedic problems like some of my patients.)

 

The other is to get the width that fits your forefoot the best but is a bit wide on the heel. For that you may need to consider using heel or tongue pads to take up the room that you can't fill / push your foot to the back of the shoe. You also could consider a type of sock like a boot sock, which has a much thicker material just around the heel and bottom of the foot to fill up that area, which can help the fit there. I actually have used a pair of boot socks under a thin pair of dress socks to fill up the area that I can't fill around my heel. I have also used the various pads in other shoes. They all can help to make things better and for some people, they actually make the shoe more comfortable from the extra padding that is now in use.

 

I know that you as well as many others aren't a fan of using the change of socks or various pads, but sometimes you have to either try them out, just deal with the problems of the shoes, or be willing to pay more money to try out higher end shoes that may fit your feet better. In my opinion, the biggest problem for people is finding the actual size that they need in a last, and finding lasts that actually have a shape that truly works with their feet. In the end, I bet most will at least give those cheap options a shot when they see how few options there really are to have nice shoes.

If you would consider the most expensive way, which is getting higher end or even custom shoes, I do have many contacts around the world, who would be willing to work with you to make you something. Quite a few of them have stuff written about them here on Styleforum. I know of ones from $350-400 up to over $10,000 a pair, with various levels of aesthetics and quality. Some of the less expensive ones can look just as good as AE. 

 

I hope that helps and please let me know if you or anyone has more questions. I'm a shopaholic plus since I'm in this part of the medical field, this is a passion of mine, especially when it comes to tough to fit feet. In the end, fit is the most important, and when you find a good fit like you haven't had before, it completely changes your whole day. People don't think of how important your feet and ankles are to the rest of your body until they have problems. 

 



Again, really appreciate all the help I can get. Wanted to add a few points -

I definitely don't need to go the uber-customized route. Not sure if I mentioned it, but 7D in the 65 last fits fine. For larger sized shoes like the McTavish or Black Hills I can use gold toe or other socks like that to help fill up the space. I guess I'm kind of spoiled - I used to be a 9D believe it or not so I could walk in and buy loafers almost without trying them on at all. I love my loafers and am really not used to all these lace-ups. But they are fine too.

My biggest problem these days has always been length. When shoes are too big, I feel like I have to make a concerted effort to sort of balance with them on, and my legs and hips ache like crazy late in the day. So I think I probably have wound up with many pairs of shoes too small in length over the years. They seem to fit very snug, but my big toes are always smashed and killing me as time goes on. I was SO appreciative of Sandi at the AE Freeport store actually explaining how the shoes were supposed to fit. I was almost ready to go with 6.5E in the 65 lasted lace-ups but she convinced me otherwise, which was a really good thing. The SAs at the retail store are very nice people but to this point they have not provided me any helpful information on fit, really. I did want to point out that even though 7/7.5 are sizes they do carry, they are not in the store, and one can't just walk into the retail store and ask for like 20 different styles to be brought in. I usually ask for like one at a time, and the back and forth, trial-and-error is just way too time consuming to deal with.

I use the boot socks, etc. with my Daltons like you suggested, and it seems to help, although the heel is definitely not what I like. I guess I will stick to my approach of "baptism by fire" by stretching the shoe as much as possible on my own and then going with the thinner dress socks. I'll also probably steer clear of the 97 last at least for now.
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