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Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc... - Page 256  

post #3826 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidrothchild View Post

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As for Winston S's problems with his Strands, there are definitely some significant issues there that would certainly bug me for $300 shoes. However, I think the awesomeness of AE's 2nds program tends to cause us to forget that these shoes are designated as 2nds because they supposedly have significant defects that would prevent people from paying full price for them. Not saying Winston shouldn't return and hope for better luck next time, just that everyone should buy 2nds understanding that there's a reason that good-year welted, full-grain leather, American-made shoes are so cheap. So anyway, that's a long way of saying that I'd keep 'em if AE didn't have another pair of 2nds in my size.

I disagree with saying "significant defects". I own a few pair of seconds and can bearly find the defect(s). I think that they look for thing that could deter someone from purchasing at full price. I had fa shoe with 1/8 inch of over glue on the leather near the sole. Pulled the glue off which left that patch lighter. After the 1st polish the spot was gone. I wouldn't call that significant.
post #3827 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeman View Post

Hey guys, Im bringing my factory second Elgin back tomorrow, as one foot is too tonight-- the side of my foot feels like its falling off the insole. Id have to wait for a factory second 9E, and that might take ages...What are the chances that since its a second, that another 9D might fit better?
Also, I have been looking around for something else to get, in case the elgin don't work out. I found this picture and was wondering if you could tell me which AE shoe is closest in style and color.
Also, open to other recommendations for a nice all around, mostly casual wear shoe in lighter brown.
226


The Players and Lombard in Walnut are probably closest.  If you want a balmoral instead of blucher, then go with McAllister or Jefferson in Walnut.  But be careful with the Players and Lombard-- they're on the 2 last which runs pretty narrow.  If you can, get fitted for them first. Mcallister and Jefferson are on the 5, same as the Elgin.

 

post #3828 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by deveandepot1 View Post

The problems with AEs seconds are typical with what you get with the firsts. My last 4 pairs (Bayfield, Malvern, Montecito, FA) came with the usual black scuffs. The heels never match up, one shoe is always a little longer than the other,...
I don't think the problems with the seconds are very significant.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by knezz View Post


I disagree with saying "significant defects". I own a few pair of seconds and can bearly find the defect(s). I think that they look for thing that could deter someone from purchasing at full price. I had fa shoe with 1/8 inch of over glue on the leather near the sole. Pulled the glue off which left that patch lighter. After the 1st polish the spot was gone. I wouldn't call that significant.


I purchased 4 pair of AE 2nds over the years (and own 3 more 1sts), I inspect before buying and only once had to ask the salesperson to grab another pair in the back for me as I found the original pair unacceptable. I don't think I'm as picky as some but the defects I see posted here may be deemed unacceptable by me as well. I assume I've just been lucky.

 

post #3829 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by deveandepot1 View Post


The quality of the leather has changed since then. Back in the 60s-70s the leather came from the US and was hand sewn in the US. Today the leather for the uppers comes from wherever and is stitched in the Dominican Republic.


I was under the impression that only the 'ae' line was not made in the US. Aren't the standard AE shoes made completely in the US?

post #3830 of 70737

I got both pair's of burgundy shell cambridge shoes (11D and 11E) and it looks like I'm going to need a 10.5E.  It's too bad, because the 11D looks fantastic (the 11E had a slight tear at the heal on one shoe), but it just seems too long.  I'm going to return these back to the outlet unless anyone is interested?  I would not charge more (or less) than I paid from outlets.

 

 

post #3831 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick_b View Post

I was under the impression that only the 'ae' line was not made in the US. Aren't the standard AE shoes made completely in the US?


According to the CEO of AE not any more. Even main line shoes are done in both places. Can't help but wonder if that doesn't explain a lot of the QC issues of late..... frown.gif

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228354/are-all-allen-edmonds-uppers-made-in-the-dominican-republic/30#post_4903126

 

post #3832 of 70737

A morning photo shoot with the new Leeds. These have had a coat of Saphir Renovateur applied (to remove a tacky substance on one toe) and a fair amount of brushing. Fit is spot on.

 

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post #3833 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post


According to the CEO of AE not any more. Even main line shoes are done in both places. Can't help but wonder if that doesn't explain a lot of the QC issues of late..... frown.gif

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228354/are-all-allen-edmonds-uppers-made-in-the-dominican-republic/30#post_4903126

 


Thanks for the info, that's new to me. Your speculation certainly sounds plausible as well.

 

post #3834 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick_b View Post



I was under the impression that only the 'ae' line was not made in the US. Aren't the standard AE shoes made completely in the US?

I think that is true for the assembly of the shoe, but I was under the impression that the cow skins are prepared in the DR. i.e.: the leather is clicked and possibly sewn into the shape of the upper before being sent to Wisconsin to be sewn to the soles and to have insoles put in.

I think shell is all done in the US?

Edit: What Cold Iron said.
post #3835 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by knezz View Post

I disagree with saying "significant defects". I own a few pair of seconds and can bearly find the defect(s). I think that they look for thing that could deter someone from purchasing at full price. I had fa shoe with 1/8 inch of over glue on the leather near the sole. Pulled the glue off which left that patch lighter. After the 1st polish the spot was gone. I wouldn't call that significant.

That's kinda my point. I'm not saying all 2nds have defects that everyone will find significant. I own a few pairs myself, and I've only ever even been able to spot the defects on 2 of them. I think it's the fact that 90% of the 2nds DON'T have anything significantly wrong that causes people to forget that they should be expecting these shoes to have defects; that's the trade-off for the low price.
It reminds me of the Gabriel Brothers in my town. When it first opened, it got almost exclusively defective merchandise. You inspected every inch of a garment until you found the tear or stain or whatever. In the past 5-10 years, Gabes started carrying mostly overstocks, so the rare defects now catch me by surprise. I purchased a pincord suit for $30 and was annoyed when I discovered it had a stain on the leg when I got it home. I had to remind myself that it's a $30 suit (one that probably retailed for less than $300 in the first place, but still), and I should be expecting something to be wrong with it. Anyway, sorry to get side-tracked. I need to start a Gabriel Brothers appreciation thread. I love that place.
post #3836 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post

According to the CEO of AE not any more. Even main line shoes are done in both places. Can't help but wonder if that doesn't explain a lot of the QC issues of late..... frown.gif

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228354/are-all-allen-edmonds-uppers-made-in-the-dominican-republic/30#post_4903126

I think it is important to keep in mind that correlation does not mean causation. I do not have the data of AE's production but my hypothesis is that the amount of 'Seconds' is not significantly more than what they had before (looking at odds ratio). There are a few confounding factors such as increased manufacturing (the more products made will lead to more 'Seconds'), number of newer workers (either domestic or international) which can lead to more possible defects, and the selective effect of the meticulousness of members on this Forum. In sum, I would guess that changes in labor practices is not a significant predictor of any change in quality.

I have owned many AE shoes in the past but recently shifted to other brands due to better last fit, style, or personal change in price point, not significant issues related to quality. It is a fine balance keeping their price-point to serve consumers while also making a profit (it is a business). I still find AE customer service second to none (although I have been treated rudely but some sales associated which I think is more due to the individual than the company). Where else can you wear shoes, create creases on shell cordovan, scratch up the leather bottom soles, and return or exchange them. Moreover, how many owners of major shoe manufacturers actually take the time to read and respond to fora such as SF and AAAC? For me, this is why I still maintain loyalty with AE. smile.gif
post #3837 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post



According to the CEO of AE not any more. Even main line shoes are done in both places. Can't help but wonder if that doesn't explain a lot of the QC issues of late..... frown.gif

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228354/are-all-allen-edmonds-uppers-made-in-the-dominican-republic/30#post_4903126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmivtr View Post

I think it is important to keep in mind that correlation does not mean causation. I do not have the data of AE's production but my hypothesis is that the amount of 'Seconds' is not significantly more than what they had before (looking at odds ratio). There are a few confounding factors such as increased manufacturing (the more products made will lead to more 'Seconds'), number of newer workers (either domestic or international) which can lead to more possible defects, and the selective effect of the meticulousness of members on this Forum. In sum, I would guess that changes in labor practices is not a significant predictor of any change in quality.
I have owned many AE shoes in the past but recently shifted to other brands due to better last fit, style, or personal change in price point, not significant issues related to quality. It is a fine balance keeping their price-point to serve consumers while also making a profit (it is a business). I still find AE customer service second to none (although I have been treated rudely but some sales associated which I think is more due to the individual than the company). Where else can you wear shoes, create creases on shell cordovan, scratch up the leather bottom soles, and return or exchange them. Moreover, how many owners of major shoe manufacturers actually take the time to read and respond to fora such as SF and AAAC? For me, this is why I still maintain loyalty with AE. smile.gif

I think these are valid points. After reading the post from CEO, it does reinforce that AE is making shoes of a certain construction type and quality available at lower prices than other companies.

There's a little bit of a parallel here with companies like J&M and Duckies, that have moved production completely offshore (mostly India in these cases). Both of these companies offer fully welted, labor intensive shoes - basically the same processes that AE uses. Their quality control is much, much, worse, however, which is one of the points the AE CEO makes. Just take a look at the Duckie for Florsheim thread for appalling quality issues with welted, shell cordovan shoes!

I think we all realize that AE has to do some offshoring to keep its prices at the level it wants to offer its shoes. How it manages this is the key. I admire what the CEO says they are trying to do in terms of balancing work between the US and the DR and at how the geographical proximity makes it much easier to manage. So far so good; but if they get to the point where they are outsourcing the complete shoe making process, then things will be different. I'm not saying necessarily worse, but different. Let's see how they are able to manage.

In the meantime, maybe we should stock up on great shoes at great prices now and not worry about the future!
post #3838 of 70737
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick_b View Post

A morning photo shoot with the new Leeds. These have had a coat of Saphir Renovateur applied (to remove a tacky substance on one toe) and a fair amount of brushing. Fit is spot on.

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Nice job, as usual. Don't forget that edge dressing... smile.gif
post #3839 of 70737

edit


Edited by jeust0999 - 3/24/12 at 11:57am
post #3840 of 70737

I want to get a pair of Jefferson wingtips or a Park ave (both last 5-65). But I've only tried on a Kenilworth in 8D at Nordstrom, it was way too tight and the toe box felt too long. I don't know what size to order my pair of factory seconds.

 

 

 

I have a pair of florsheim imperial wingtips in 8D.

 

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