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Watch experts.... JLC movement?

post #1 of 11
9/22/09 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
I've got a Gold Dunhill Facet 1936 very similar to the watch being sold here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18K-GOLD-DUNHI...#ht_783wt_1165

Just been keeping my eye on it for interest sake. Seller claims original cost of £4500 which is what the original price of my own was. The seller also claims that it's a JLC movement in this particular example.

Can any of you watch experts tell just by looking at the photos?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 11
9/22/09 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenStyle View Post
I've got a Gold Dunhill Facet 1936 very similar to the watch being sold here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18K-GOLD-DUNHI...#ht_783wt_1165

Just been keeping my eye on it for interest sake. Seller claims original cost of £4500 which is what the original price of my own was. The seller also claims that it's a JLC movement in this particular example.

Can any of you watch experts tell just by looking at the photos?

Thanks in advance!

If you haven't already, make the same post in the J-LC forum on Timezone. You might get some help there, too.
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post #3 of 11
9/22/09 at 10:58am
That doesn't look like the claimed JLC Cal 822.

Compare with this http://www.relojes-especiales.com/fo...05&postcount=8
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post #4 of 11
9/22/09 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post
That doesn't look like the claimed JLC Cal 822.

Compare with this http://www.relojes-especiales.com/fo...05&postcount=8

Yup. This sentence is also quite suspect!:

Quote:
unhill and Jaeger-LeCoultre are part of the same parent company - the Richemont Group, the partnership thus makes sense hence the Dunhill signed Jaeger Le Coultre movement.
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post #5 of 11
9/22/09 at 11:11am
The part about Dunhill and JLC both being part of Richemont is true.
And there's some other Dunhill Facet watch with a JLC 822 and have probably been others.
It's just that the picture in that auction doesn't look like a JLC822.
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post #6 of 11
11/8/09 at 12:29pm
As suspected the movement on this limited edition Facet is DEFINITELY NOT a JLC.

The good news is it is not made by ETA either.

It was made for Dunhill by Jaquet Droz, now one of the prestige brands of Swatch Group, along with Breguet, Blancpain, Glashutte etc. so a very good mechanism, certainly in a similar league to a JLC Cal. 822.

Jacquet Droz focuses on producing very small limited edition runs of premium priced watches with unusual complications, drawing on C 18th designs with a contemporary twist.

This movement made for Dunhill is given a Calibre reference of 763.2, and as I can see no reference for this calibre being used in any of their other current range, conclude it is an in house OEM movement from a previous Jaquet collection (Tonneau range).

It is the same movement used in Dunhill's limited edition Dakar Facet watch. Here's a picture of the movement:

http://www.luxurywatchswap.com/dunhill.php
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post #7 of 11
11/8/09 at 12:54pm
Confirmation that this movement was used in the Tonneau range. A very, very similar calibre was used in a Jaquet Tonneau cased watch, model ref 5195.JS.37.2907

It's a stunning piece. First a picture of the movement:

http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/watche...oz003.jpg.html

Note the additional JD engraving on the 1st wheel. Other than that the movement looks pretty much identical.

Next a picture of the face:

http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/watche...oz001.jpg.html

..showing the same 8pm positioned minature seconds dial.

This model - and hence the movement - is mentioned on this web site as made PRE Swatch (acquisition in 2004), and if true would probably be towards the end of the period 1990-2000+ when limited Jaquet Droz production was positioned as a super-premium sub-brand with very limited distribution under the roof of Breguet. The styling is a more classic version of the 2002/3 Tonneau GMT models of very similar design so could originate from then. Throughout this period Jaquet Droz was customising movements in-house.
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post #8 of 11
11/8/09 at 1:17pm
Extract from interview with Eric Loth, CEO of British Masters Group, a consultant to Swiss watch brands, and who ran a number of Swatch businesses previously:

Jaquet remains to my knowledge, the last and unique independent movement maker whose operations are managed by the family. This company is able to realise modifications and customisations of existing movements, but also to develop entirely new movements or improved reproductions of older movements. A visit of the company may give you more information, as this company is manufacturing all parts (screws, pins, gears, platin, bridges etc…) but the escapement. Jaquet is also delivering movements or parts to some of the most prestigious brands in Switzerland.

This information, with the above knowledge, suggests that the Cal 736.2 used in the Dunhill Facet Ltd Ed. is a reproduction or version of a slightly older movement from the resurgent period in the later 1990s or dates from the early 2000s.
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post #9 of 11
11/9/09 at 3:29pm
Confirmation directly from Jaquet Droz in Switzerland confirms the above hypothesis.

To be precise high grade, base movements were sourced by JD around 2002 - they say from Frederic Piguet.

Notwithstanding, there is another much stronger probability. They could well have been sourced from Jaquet-Baume, based in the same town as JD in the Swiss Jura. These movments are the same as used by the German rare and vintage movement watchmaker Jacques Etoile in their Estes Parc models from 2002 - their base movements came from Jaquet-Baume, are near enough identical, are classified as Cal 736.6 and were described as follows:

The classic caliber with the dimensions of approximately 16 times 25 millimeters is called JE II and is technically based on an old watchwork model which was thoroughly redone by a small specialist in the Swiss Jura region. The height is just 3.83 millimeters. An especially big balance wheel provides a high torque, which guarantees decidedly good accuracy. The transmission of the force from the spring barrel to the balance consumes very little energy

Jaquet Droz then modified the base movements in-house to create the superb JD 763.x series calibre, used principally for their Tonneau range in the early 2000s, and which were also supplied to Dunhill in the form of the Cal 763.2 for the Limited Edition Facets.
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post #10 of 11
5/24/10 at 5:37am
Update now the Dunhill (model no DU1918BM) has been thoroughly serviced, seals replaced and worn for 3 months:

The true class of the gorgeous movement shines through - accurate to within 5 seconds a week.

Supremely comfortable to wear.

Winder not a great design, as a little slippery, need to wash and dry hands beforehand.
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post #11 of 11
2/2/12 at 4:57am
Winder now changed to a standard gold crown, which does not slip when wound. Watch times perfectly, no more than a handful of seconds deviation per week.
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