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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!) - Page 53

post #781 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

Paraphrasing onix in another thread, Drop = difference between chest size and pant size. For example, a 40R suit with a drop 7 means a pant size of 33". The greater the drop, the "slimmer" the cut. Most suits are drop 6 or 7.

Keep in mind though that alot of the times the 'drops' are 'vanity drops'. Meaning, a suit tagged 40R Drop 7 may have a 34' waist. RLBL is one of the only brands with perfectly corresponding drops between chest size and trouser waist (i.e. 40R suit with 33' trousers on a drop 7).

Also, a high drop can be an indication of a slim cut. A suit with a drop 8, 9 or 10 will likely have narrow armholes.
post #782 of 1317

Understanding that this is a ranking of off-the-rack clothing, I agree with the current rankings of the few brands I own (and in the case of Castangia, am very interested in owning).  Brioni and Sartoria Castangia definitely belong in the top tier of this list.  I was actually surprised that Isaia and Sartoria Partenopea remained in the top tier for so long. While these brands are both solidly “Very Good”, they’re clearly not at the same level as the “Excellent” brands.  There’s definitely not as clear a difference between the “Very Good” and “Good” brands on this list though. Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece (made in Italy), Corneliani, RLBL (made in Italy) and Ermenegildo Zegna are all well-constructed of similar fabrics and are all solidly “Good” with comparable quality.  That said, I actually think my Italian-made BB GF is more similar to the “Very Good” brands in my closet than it is to my “Good” brands.  In my opinion, this list is a pretty accurate reference regarding the relative quality of the few brands I own.

 

Edit: My comments refer to the list in post #756 .


Edited by Outlaw 06 - 5/3/13 at 5:59am
post #783 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

Paraphrasing onix in another thread, Drop = difference between chest size and pant size. For example, a 40R suit with a drop 7 means a pant size of 33". The greater the drop, the "slimmer" the cut. Most suits are drop 6 or 7.

That's what I was looking for. So the greater the drop, the slimmer the cut. Oh wait, so which one is slimmer, 6 or 8?

post #784 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by othertravel View Post


Keep in mind though that alot of the times the 'drops' are 'vanity drops'. Meaning, a suit tagged 40R Drop 7 may have a 34' waist. RLBL is one of the only brands with perfectly corresponding drops between chest size and trouser waist (i.e. 40R suit with 33' trousers on a drop 7).

Also, a high drop can be an indication of a slim cut. A suit with a drop 8, 9 or 10 will likely have narrow armholes.

Just the response I was looking for.

post #785 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDeKelver View Post

I have done MTM Samuelson for as little as $1,200 (Canada with Harry Rosen).  Other fabrics can be even better.  On the other hand, you can pick Canali starting at $1,800 and go right out of the ballpark with Vicuna.  E.Zegna will start at $2,000 with the mainline cloths. 

 

IMHO, an OTR Canali totally blows away a MTM Samuelson.  I have both.   Both are fully canvassed, but it is just different. I have seen the new display of Samuelson 1923 with Zegna fabrics and lots of handiwork.  they look nice.


I have suits by Canali and Pal Zileri, and sportcoats by these and Samuelsohn and Zegna (mainline) and other makers at a similar level. Out of all of these, I like Pal Zileri and Samuelsohn best and Canali least.  All RTW and then tailored locally.  But a lot of this comes down to personal preferences.

post #786 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudals1281 View Post

That's what I was looking for. So the greater the drop, the slimmer the cut. Oh wait, so which one is slimmer, 6 or 8?

Yes, the greater the drop, the slimmer the cut. Drop 8 is slimmer than drop 6.

post #787 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

Yes, the greater the drop, the slimmer the cut. Drop 8 is slimmer than drop 6.

not necessarily. For a very general view yes you are correct but there are instances where this is not the case. For example both TF and Brioni have 32 inch trousers for their 38 (48Reu) jackets but TF is much slimmer fitting. Although im not quite sure that the "drop" refers to the difference between jacket and trouser, it might refer to the jacket chest size vs jacket waist. Even within the same brand for example Brioni, i barely have to take the waist in on some models but have to quite a bit on others. Qunirile vs Nomentano comes to mind for this case even though both are 38r jackets with 32 pants
post #788 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post

Understanding that this is a ranking of off-the-rack clothing, I agree with the current rankings of the few brands I own (and in the case of Castangia, am very interested in owning).  Brioni and Sartoria Castangia definitely belong in the top tier of this list.  I was actually surprised that Isaia and Sartoria Partenopea remained in the top tier for so long. While these brands are both solidly “Very Good”, they’re clearly not at the same level as the “Excellent” brands.  There’s definitely not as clear a difference between the “Very Good” and “Good” brands on this list though. Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece (made in Italy), Corneliani, RLBL (made in Italy) and Ermenegildo Zegna are all well-constructed of similar fabrics and are all solidly “Good” with comparable quality.  That said, I actually think my Italian-made BB GF is more similar to the “Very Good” brands in my closet than it is to my “Good” brands.  In my opinion, this list is a pretty accurate reference regarding the relative quality of the few brands I own.

ive been saying the same thing, but you see how many comments it took to get lavera moved up. Just the fact that Partenopea and Isaia were for a time ranked higher than la vera shows that this list cant be taken seriously.
post #789 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post


ive been saying the same thing, but you see how many comments it took to get lavera moved up. Just the fact that Partenopea and Isaia were for a time ranked higher than la vera shows that this list cant be taken seriously.

That's why I commented that the list in post #756 is now pretty accurate regarding the various OTR brands that I own.  I don't own a La Vera suit, so I can't comment on the ranking of that particular brand.

post #790 of 1317

Are there clear rankings within each grouping?  I see that the Good group is ordered by alphabet.  Are they all very close in quality or is there some pretty big differences?

post #791 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post

That's why I commented that the list in post #756 is now pretty accurate regarding the various OTR brands that I own.  I don't own a La Vera suit, so I can't comment on the ranking of that particular brand.

D'avenza and Borelli shouldn't be in the top imo. Borelli ive owned and D'avenza from what ive seen is very good but shouldnt be in the same ranking as Attolini, Oxxford, Kiton and Brioni. But if they are up there then RLPL, Tom Ford, and Zegna Couture should be as well.
post #792 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrut View Post

Are there clear rankings within each grouping?  I see that the Good group is ordered by alphabet.  Are they all very close in quality or is there some pretty big differences?

Here is where it gets a bit tricky. Ill comment on the top group since most of those ive owned or friends of mine have them so i can feel comfortable commenting. Let's take the case of Kiton and Attolini, both top tier brands on any list however Attolini has more handwork (probably the most handwork in RTW, with the exception of Lavera maybe oxxford but i dont own that so cant comment) but kiton has nicer fabrics. Holding fabric at a constant then attolini would be higher overall. But this doesnt mean that Kiton shouldnt be in the top based on handwork alone because in the RTW world they also have one of the most handwork so even if they decided to make a line that used "lesser" fabrics (which they did with CIPA) those would still be in the top ranking. Its a bit confusing but for the top bracket at least who has more handwork or who has better fabric its basically just nitpicking since they are all really high up there.
post #793 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post


D'avenza and Borelli shouldn't be in the top imo. Borelli ive owned and D'avenza from what ive seen is very good but shouldnt be in the same ranking as Attolini, Oxxford, Kiton and Brioni.

Agreed on D'Avenza.

post #794 of 1317

How do I find out what the fabric quality is (ie Super 120s)? I just looked at the label on my jacket and was not able to find anything. I have Zegna Trefo(?) and Zegna (All Season) and RLBL

post #795 of 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by apack View Post


I have suits by Canali and Pal Zileri, and sportcoats by these and Samuelsohn and Zegna (mainline) and other makers at a similar level. Out of all of these, I like Pal Zileri and Samuelsohn best and Canali least.  All RTW and then tailored locally.  But a lot of this comes down to personal preferences.

Can you comment further on why you like the Pal Zileri and Samuelsohn more than the Canali? I own an unstructured Pal Zileri wool sport coat (Green Label) that I like a lot, and I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a cotton/linen unstructured Canali jacket... My main concern is that the Canali's I've tried on in the past were not slim cut enough for me (I'm 5'10" and 150 lb), but this jacket appears to be in a more modern cut. Thanks!

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