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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!) - Page 49

post #721 of 1318
- Oxxford (Highest Quality)
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- D'Avenza
- Isaia
- Kiton
- Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
- Luigi Borrelli
- Sartoria Castangia
- Sartoria Partenopea
- St Andrew
- La Vera Sartoria Napoletana

Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

- Oxxford (1220)
- Belvest mainline
- Borrelli Luxury Vintage
- Canali Milano
- Corneliani Linea Sartoria
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
- Ravazzolo
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
- RLPL
- Zegna Couture
- Tom Ford

Good[***] (IE: Quality is superior to most suits.)

- Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
- Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
- Brunello Cucinelli (very nice fabrics)
- Canali mainline
- Canali Exclusive (higher end fabrics)
- Cantarelli Tailor
- Corneliani
- Dunhill
- Ermenegildo Zegna
- Faconnable Tailleur
- Hickey Freeman Mainline
- Kei by Canali (full canvas, but very soft)
- Pal Zileri mainline
- Paul Smith Mainline (fully canvassed)
- Paul Stuart
- Raffaelle Caruso mainline
- RLBL
- Samuelsohn
- J. Press Presstige (full canvas)



Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)

- Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)
- Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
- Cantarelli
- Charles Tyrwhitt
- CC Cornelaini (half canvassed)
- Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
- H. Freemann
- Hackett (half canvassed)
- Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
- Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
- J Crew Ludlow (half canvassed)
- Lardini (half canvassed)
- Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
- Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
- Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)
- Suit Supply (half canvassed)
- Valentino (half canvassed)
- L.B.M. 1911
- Piombo


Mediocre to Poor[*] (Suits that are mediocre to poor.)

- J. Press mainline (fused)
- Hugo Boss (fused)
- hickey (now fused and made in China)
- Joseph Abboud
- Zara
- H&M
- Calvin Klein Collection (now fused)
- Z Zegna
- Alfani
- DKNY
- Donald Trump
- Tommy Hilfiger
- Michael Kors
post #722 of 1318
Anyone have thoughts on Jos A Banks Platinum series in this hierarchy?
post #723 of 1318
Anyone have thoughts on Jos A Banks Platinum series in this hierarchy?
post #724 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTA View Post


The Made in USA (think it's made by Southwick and Workers Union) is full canvassed.
The first Made in Italy (precursor to RLPL by Corneliani) iteration is full canvassed.
I may be wrong however my experience with J Crew Ludlow is fused. It's being advertised as canvassed chest piece and is totally a different beast to half canvassed. PRL Blue Label is half canvassed.


yea the chest pieces are canvassed but the Lapels are fused.. so technically it is not half canvassed right?

post #725 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTA View Post

The Made in USA (think it's made by Southwick and Workers Union) is full canvassed.
The first Made in Italy (precursor to RLPL by Corneliani) iteration is full canvassed.
I may be wrong however my experience with J Crew Ludlow is fused. It's being advertised as canvassed chest piece and is totally a different beast to half canvassed. PRL Blue Label is half canvassed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

One more time: J Crew Ludlow suits are half canvassed with wool fabrics from good Italian mills. I'd put them in the lower-to-middle range of "satisfactory".

Quote:
Originally Posted by chocsosa View Post


yea the chest pieces are canvassed but the Lapels are fused.. so technically it is not half canvassed right?

J. Crew is definitely not half canvas unless they changed it recently. Fabrics come from famous mills but really don't feel the same compared to other brands using the same fabric companies. A mall suit is a mall suit, nothing is giving to change that fact. Mediocre at best but given how much higher pricing is compared to the other brands in the list I'd say its more poor.
post #726 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

- Alfani
- DKNY
- Donald Trump
- Tommy Hilfiger
- Michael Kors

LOL
post #727 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTA View Post

I may be wrong however my experience with J Crew Ludlow is fused. It's being advertised as canvassed chest piece and is totally a different beast to half canvassed. PRL Blue Label is half canvassed.

J Crew's web site on the Ludlow says the coat has a "half canvas-lining". They go on to say "Four interior layers of canvas and haircloth (from one of the world's best suppliers) maintain the jacket's structure and mold to the wearer's body over time."

 

They also indicate the collar and lapel are pad stitched. Doesn't this mean the collar and lapel are canvassed since this stitching is between the wool and the canvas?

 

http://www.jcrew.com/mens_feature/TheLudlowShop.jsp  (you will need to page to about the 8th page of their flash presentation)

 

This article also indicates the Ludlow's are half-canvassed, and has photos.

http://www.getkempt.com/storefront/a-first-look-inside-j-crews-ludlow-shop.php

 

Would appreciate a short tutorial if this is wrong...always happy to learn something new.

 

Here is two articles on pad stitching to attach the canvas and wool. See the section labeled "The Process" in the first one

http://www.mycustomtailor.com/customtailor/The_Making_Of_A_Bespoke_Mens_Suit_By_A_Custom_Tailor_..htm

http://www.sempstress.org/skill/pad-stitching/

 

In terms of the Ludlow fabrics, I found the worsted wool sharkskin to be pretty nice; I also own jackets from the "very good" category of this list, and while the Ludlow fabric is not that good, it really is not bad at all.


Edited by redboat - 4/26/13 at 6:33pm
post #728 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by chocsosa View Post


yea the chest pieces are canvassed but the Lapels are fused.. so technically it is not half canvassed right?

J Crew's web site says the lapels are pad stitched, which I believe means they are canvassed; this stitching is used to attach the canvas and wool. Or do you have some other source of information on this?

http://www.jcrew.com/mens_feature/TheLudlowShop.jsp  (you will need to page to about the 8th page of their flash presentation)

 

Here's a tutorial on pad stitching and its purpose.

http://www.sempstress.org/skill/pad-stitching/


Edited by redboat - 4/26/13 at 5:55pm
post #729 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

J Crew's web site says the lapels are pad stitched, which I believe means they are canvassed; this stitching is used to attach the canvas and wool. Or do you have some other source of information on this?

http://www.jcrew.com/mens_feature/TheLudlowShop.jsp  (you will need to page to about the 8th page of their flash presentation)

 

Here's a tutorial on pad stitching and its purpose.

http://www.sempstress.org/skill/pad-stitching/


I know what a pad stitched Lapel looks like. I was told by an S.A at the store that it was not. Obviously you have information to the contrary so in short, you have made your point.

post #730 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post

- Oxxford (Highest Quality)
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- D'Avenza
- Isaia
- Kiton
- Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
- Luigi Borrelli
- Sartoria Castangia
- Sartoria Partenopea
- St Andrew
- La Vera Sartoria Napoletana

Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

- Oxxford (1220)
- Belvest mainline
- Borrelli Luxury Vintage
- Canali Milano
- Corneliani Linea Sartoria
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
- Ravazzolo
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
- RLPL
- Zegna Couture
- Tom Ford

/quote]


Partenopea, D'avenza, and Isaia should not be up there with Attolini, Kiton and Brioni. Also Zegna Couture, Tom Ford, and RLPL should be in the highest bracket
post #731 of 1318
Agree with Jeff re his recommended changes
post #732 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

J Crew's web site on the Ludlow says the coat has a "half canvas-lining". They go on to say "Four interior layers of canvas and haircloth (from one of the world's best suppliers) maintain the jacket's structure and mold to the wearer's body over time."

They also indicate the collar and lapel are pad stitched. Doesn't this mean the collar and lapel are canvassed since this stitching is between the wool and the canvas?

http://www.jcrew.com/mens_feature/TheLudlowShop.jsp  (you will need to page to about the 8th page of their flash presentation)

This article also indicates the Ludlow's are half-canvassed, and has photos.
http://www.getkempt.com/storefront/a-first-look-inside-j-crews-ludlow-shop.php

Would appreciate a short tutorial if this is wrong...always happy to learn something new.

Here is two articles on pad stitching to attach the canvas and wool. See the section labeled "The Process" in the first one
http://www.mycustomtailor.com/customtailor/The_Making_Of_A_Bespoke_Mens_Suit_By_A_Custom_Tailor_..htm
http://www.sempstress.org/skill/pad-stitching/

In terms of the Ludlow fabrics, I found the worsted wool sharkskin to be pretty nice; I also own jackets from the "very good" category of this list, and while the Ludlow fabric is not that good, it really is not bad at all.

Sometimes there's a caveat with the marketing. The J Crew website doesn't mention whether the garment is fused or not. They only stated that they're using canvas horsehair on the chest and padded lapel.

I prefer to use jefferyd explanation on fusing subject. Nevertheless the bottom line is this list is not a bible and subjective.

If you like the overall fit, value and fabric though the garment is fused I don't see any issue with that. Fusing technology has improved dramatically hence not all fusing are bad. I prefer to wear one that I'm happy with than a fully canvassed ill fitted garment.
post #733 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTA View Post


Sometimes there's a caveat with the marketing. The J Crew website doesn't mention whether the garment is fused or not. They only stated that they're using canvas horsehair on the chest and padded lapel.

I prefer to use jefferyd explanation on fusing subject. Nevertheless the bottom line is this list is not a bible and subjective.

If you like the overall fit, value and fabric though the garment is fused I don't see any issue with that. Fusing technology has improved dramatically hence not all fusing are bad. I prefer to wear one that I'm happy with than a fully canvassed ill fitted garment.

The question is not whether a J Crew Ludlow suit fits me or if I like the suit, but about suit quality.

 

The general consensus seems to be that a suit must be half-canvassed to belong in the "Satisfactory" category, with a few possible exceptions.

 

The links I provided show pretty convincingly that the suit is canvassed in the chest, collar, and lapel. I believe this conforms with the explanation of half-canvassing at the link you gave as well as others. If you have something that shows otherwise, please share it.


Edited by redboat - 4/28/13 at 11:25am
post #734 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by redboat View Post

The question is not whether a J Crew Ludlow suit fits me or if I like the suit, but about suit quality.

The general consensus seems to be that a suit must be half-canvassed to belong in the "Satisfactory" category, with a few possible exceptions.

The links I provided show pretty convincingly that the suit is canvassed in the chest, collar, and lapel. I believe this conforms with the explanation of half-canvassing at the link you gave as well as others. If you have something that shows otherwise, please share it.

You win can you just move on
post #735 of 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff13007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post

- Oxxford (Highest Quality)
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- D'Avenza
- Isaia
- Kiton
- Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
- Luigi Borrelli
- Sartoria Castangia
- Sartoria Partenopea
- St Andrew
- La Vera Sartoria Napoletana

Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

- Oxxford (1220)
- Belvest mainline
- Borrelli Luxury Vintage
- Canali Milano
- Corneliani Linea Sartoria
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
- Ravazzolo
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
- RLPL
- Zegna Couture
- Tom Ford

/quote]


Partenopea, D'avenza, and Isaia should not be up there with Attolini, Kiton and Brioni. Also Zegna Couture, Tom Ford, and RLPL should be in the highest bracket

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mans72 View Post

Agree with Jeff re his recommended changes

I think what is holding them out is the machine usage within the manufacturing process. I love TF and RLPL; cant say the are on the same level as Kiton of Oxxford. Agree on Isaia being moved down.

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