The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

What no chan?

Despite all the bile, this kind of lists is usually useful. Sure, it's subjective, but so is rating anything that involves aesthetics as well as build quality. They do it with cars, they can do it with suits. Most people cannot go on a Jules Vern 80 suits around the world odyssey to sample suits by themselves or window shopping. There must be references, usually more knowledgeable/experienced people whose diatribes you can read and then make your own conclusions.

I for one, was under the impression that Ermenegildo Zegna makes good quality suits and that Boss/Armani are overpriced. Reading the SF reinforced this idea.

Not savvy (erm) enough to add to the list, but an attentive reader nonetheless...

How many of the people modifying the list have had firsthand experience with a majority of the brands listed?

Originally Posted by HomerJ

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There's a big jump between 0 star and 1 star so I added fractional stars

Also bumped up Nautica from 0 star to 4/8 star

Nonpareil [*****1/2] (i.e. Unmatched so don't add anyone else)
- Savile Row's Paul Jheeta

Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. If money is a factor then these suits could sell for much, much more. This category should be kept to only a few items)
- Kiton
- Oxxford
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- Borrelli
- RLPL

Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category or prices could be raised significantly and would still be good value).

- Luciano Barbera
- Sartoria Partenopea
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Isaia
- Caruso Sartoria Parma
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale
- Ravazzolo
- Zegna Couture
- Brooks Brothers Black Fleece


(snip)

Was there really an increase in quality between Sartoria Attolini and the name change to Cesare Attolini? (I assumed it was just a name change).

Originally Posted by Toiletduck

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What no chan?

"Optimist only sees doughnut. Pessimist sees hole."

Charlie Chan in Paris (1935)


- B

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Above SoCal, but below Fuuma. However, I can see it going the other way. Whatever the case, it deserves our support.

That sounds like a place that would hurt your tushie.

Originally Posted by furo

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Because it's a superior product (at least the stuff I've seen and own - not sure about the current season)?

I ask because Golden Fleece has traditionally been Brooks Brothers' flagship product, made to top spec by Martin Greenfield. There is a good amount of handwork in it. Who makes the Black Fleece suits, and how does the workmanship compare?

I'd like jefferyd and Despos to chime in on this list.

I can't believe we forgot to rank Tom Ford. The list is dead to me now.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I ask because Golden Fleece has traditionally been Brooks Brothers' flagship product, made to top spec by Martin Greenfield. There is a good amount of handwork in it. Who makes the Black Fleece suits, and how does the workmanship compare?

The Greenfield GF stuff I have owned only had button holes done by hand, and not all that well either. The cut is just awful too.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Who makes the Black Fleece suits, and how does the workmanship compare?

Right now they're made by Southwick, hence the drop to $1600 (I don't have any experience w/ the new stuff nor quality)

But the older stuff is all from Italy by mainly Caruso, and the handwork is everywhere. Full canvas, pick stitching, etc ... and the fabric is better than Golden Fleece from what I've seen.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I can't believe we forgot to rank Tom Ford. The list is dead to me now.

+1

OK, as much as I think this list is generally a bad idea and is devolving into a joke, it seems it is not going to die and some people are going to rely on it for making future purchasing decisions, so I'll add my two cents.

The major RTW brands here that I have experience with are Isaia, RLBL, Paul Smith Mainline, Paul Smith London, PS Paul Smith, Brooks Brothers 1818, Z-Zegna and Theory. Currently all of these which are listed but Isaia are lumped into the same category, which I don't think is right. The RLBL and Paul Smith Mainline are much nicer than the others. Both are fully canvassed and, on at least the ones I own, the fabric is quite nice. Attention to detail on Paul Smith Mainline and Paul Smith London is very good, particularly in terms of things like plaids and stripes lining up perfectly.

Brooks Brothers 1818 and Z-Zegna are OK, but nothing particularly special--both half canvassed.

The Theory is actually a good beater suit for me. Sad to say, but I get more compliments on it than any other suit I own. It is fused and has tacky machine pick stitching, though. I'd say probably comparable to Hugo Boss.

I don't have much experience with any of the Isaia peers, so I'll just leave that alone.

Accordingly I propose the following changes:

Nonpareil [*****1/2] (i.e. Unmatched so don't add anyone else)
- Savile Row's Paul Jheeta

Excellent [*****] (i.e. Suits made this well are far and few between, if money is no object your closet would be full of these. This category should be kept to only a few items)
- Kiton
- Oxxford
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- Borrelli
- RLPL

Very Good [****] (i.e. Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category).

- Luciano Barbera
- Sartoria Partenopea
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Isaia
- Caruso Sartoria Parma
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale
- Ravazzolo
- Zegna Couture
- Brooks Brothers Black Fleece

Good [***] (i.e. Quality is superior to most suits).

- Hickey Freeman Mainline
- Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
- Ermenegildo Zegna
- Samuelsohn
- Paul Smith Mainline (fully canvassed)
- RLBL (fully canvassed)

Satisfactory [**] (i.e. The "Average" Brands. Quality is acceptable).
- Cantarelli
- Boglioli (might not be not in terms of construction, but def for cut and fabric)
- Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
- Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
- H. Freemann
- Hickey Freeman LTD (Half Canvas)
- Z-Zegna (sometimes satisfactory sometimes mediocre)

Mediocre[*] (Suits that are mediocre).
-PS Paul Smith (fused)
- Theory (fused)
- Hugo Boss
- Banana Republic Monogram
- Lauren Ralph Lauren

So-so [7/8 *] (i.e. sometimes mediocre, sometimes bad)
- Land's End
- Hart Schaffner Marx
- Sean John

Below par [6/8 *] (i.e. noticeably lacking in quality, only for doormen)
- Chaps Ralph Lauren
- Haggar Imperial
- Jos A Bank Signature Gold

Displeasing [5/8 *] (i.e. downright offensive to the senses)
- Baroni
- Jos A Bank Signature
- John Bartlett
- Haggar Black Label

For poor people [4/8 *] (i.e. Don't buy unless money is definitely an object)
- Haggar
- Oscar de la Renta
- Nautica
- Jos A Bank Executive
- Evan Picone

Bad [3/8 *] (i.e. Don't buy unless you're on welfare and need to appear in court. May be able to return for refund if you don't remove the sleeve tag)

- Tommy Hilfiger
- Mantoni (sorry Manton)
- Jos A Bank Stays Cool (sometimes 4/8 * if you need help staying cool )
- Cricketeer

Really Bad [2/8 *] (i.e. more bad than Bad but not as bad as Badder than Really Bad)
- Austin Reed
- Polo University Club (if you cut off half the label that says University Club, upgrade to 3/8 *)
- Rocco Siffredi
- Mario Rossi
- British Manor

Badder [1/8 *] (just don't buy it OK?)
- Today's Man
- K&G
- Structure (if you have a time machine to go back to 1992, bump to 3/8 *)
- Alfani

Baddest [ ] (i.e. Don't buy. Quality is overall bad, or quality is nowhere near the price asked for).
- H&M
- Banana Republic
- Calvin Klein
- Tasso Elba

Why is Rocco Siffredi ranked so low given all the handwork involved?

- B

Where does Joseph Abboud fall in this list?