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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!) - Page 78

post #1156 of 1310

Where would Chester Barrie rank on the list?  I picked up a couple on consignment and one from @dirnelli . I'm a fan of the fit and styling but curious as to how folks rank them in the Hierarchy.

 

Happy Thanksgiving all BTW...

post #1157 of 1310
FWIW -- The Chester Barrie I sold is the older nicer stuff from their glory days, all handmade, fully canvassed, not the current fused Chester By line Made in China.
post #1158 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

FWIW -- The Chester Barrie I sold is the older nicer stuff from their glory days, all handmade, fully canvassed, not the current fused Chester By line Made in China.


Agreed.  The suits I picked up from you is very well made with a great fit and drape.  The ones I picked up from consignment are from the same period with similar styling.

post #1159 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheGroom View Post
 

Hi Guys.  Hudson's Bay has Michael Kors suits on sale for $179.99 today.  I don't need a suit right now, but I do need a navy blue suit, since I don't have one.  Should I get one at this price, or are they still not worth it?  I'd never pay the regular $480 for them.

Wait for the ZZegna suits to go 60% off.

post #1160 of 1310
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg8183 View Post
 

This is a great list for newbies like me. So, thank you very much. I have several requests, if I may, and they are:

1) where would you place Benjamin suits from eHaberdasher?

2) where would you place Baroni suits from The Wizard of Aahs?

 

My last request will not only be very helpful to me, but to many others that are in the same position, as well.

Would it be possible to include various price ranges for each suit on the list, so that we'll know when to jump on a particular suit when we find it. The prices can be broken down under these headings:

1) Close to retail price, can always be found

2) OK price, don't bother if not in a rush

3) Very good price, uncommon to find

4) Buy it ASAP, its a steal 

 

Example:

- "Brand Name" - 1. $500 plus, 2. 300-499, 3. $200-299, 4. Under $200

 

Of course this is an indicative breakdown, but you get the idea. If there is a better way, so be it.

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

 

I think this would really help even if the ballparks change. It is better than going blind over there. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhouette View Post
 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg8183 View Post
 

This is a great list for newbies like me. So, thank you very much. I have several requests, if I may, and they are:

1) where would you place Benjamin suits from eHaberdasher?

2) where would you place Baroni suits from The Wizard of Aahs?

 

My last request will not only be very helpful to me, but to many others that are in the same position, as well.

Would it be possible to include various price ranges for each suit on the list, so that we'll know when to jump on a particular suit when we find it. The prices can be broken down under these headings:

1) Close to retail price, can always be found

2) OK price, don't bother if not in a rush

3) Very good price, uncommon to find

4) Buy it ASAP, its a steal 

 

Example:

- "Brand Name" - 1. $500 plus, 2. 300-499, 3. $200-299, 4. Under $200

 

Of course this is an indicative breakdown, but you get the idea. If there is a better way, so be it.

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

 

This is a great proposal. However I doubt that any author with that particular knowledge would be willing to share it. The more transparency, the more people are going to compete to find quality items at good prices.

It will help to new guys searching. 

 

Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Originally Posted by doctorman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhouette View Post

 

This is a great proposal. However I doubt that any author with that particular knowledge would be willing to share it. The more transparency, the more people are going to compete to find quality items at good prices.

i think at times we already have enough of an issue agreeing what suits belong to what category.  the prices of the suits can vary tremendously within the same region, let alone different countries with different currencies.  the various prices can be just as detrimental as helpful when one is looking for a suit. 

 

i do like the idea and i think the whole point is to make their pricing as transparent as possible (to help the consumers).  we should allow this thread be the way it is - it's about quality of suits, and perhaps create a different thread on various pricing points of suits. 

 

 

I think it is about QUALITY of suits but it is also to help people have some idea on which SEGMENT they could afford. 

 

We can talk about how a Lexus is higher quality than Toyota but people also talk about AFFORDABILITY & PRICE for the QUALITY. QUALITY is never discussed without the COST at which it can be HAD. 

 

You could make OBJECTS of PERFECT things, but QUALITY & COST are parameters for all ITEMS one could buy. 

 

Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorman View Post
 

i think at times we already have enough of an issue agreeing what suits belong to what category.  the prices of the suits can vary tremendously within the same region, let alone different countries with different currencies.  the various prices can be just as detrimental as helpful when one is looking for a suit. 

 

i do like the idea and i think the whole point is to make their pricing as transparent as possible (to help the consumers).  we should allow this thread be the way it is - it's about quality of suits, and perhaps create a different thread on various pricing points of suits. 

Agree completely. Regional divergence in pricing will likely lead to greater confusion than greater clarity.

 

 

Prices of a BMW vary across many countries but people have to first look at AFFORDABILITY and PRICE RANGE before they can even CONSIDER buying one. 

 

For all those who can and already buy the high $ value quality suits it has no meaning, but for many who REALLY and TRULY VALUE this GUIDE, the guys learning the ropes, it is KEY. Because we start with how much we could/ would spend for starters. 

 

It may not be perfect information. But, it would help and NOT confuse the seekers. 

post #1161 of 1310

X, there's really no need to SHOUT.

post #1162 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

X, there's really no need to SHOUT.

+1 - also IMO a good price for a suit (other than the lower the better for the same suit) is more subjective than the quality discussion.
post #1163 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
 

 

I think this would really help even if the ballparks change. It is better than going blind over there. 

 

It will help to new guys searching. 

 

I think it is about QUALITY of suits but it is also to help people have some idea on which SEGMENT they could afford. 

 

We can talk about how a Lexus is higher quality than Toyota but people also talk about AFFORDABILITY & PRICE for the QUALITY. QUALITY is never discussed without the COST at which it can be HAD. 

 

You could make OBJECTS of PERFECT things, but QUALITY & COST are parameters for all ITEMS one could buy. 

 

Prices of a BMW vary across many countries but people have to first look at AFFORDABILITY and PRICE RANGE before they can even CONSIDER buying one. 

 

For all those who can and already buy the high $ value quality suits it has no meaning, but for many who REALLY and TRULY VALUE this GUIDE, the guys learning the ropes, it is KEY. Because we start with how much we could/ would spend for starters. 

 

It may not be perfect information. But, it would help and NOT confuse the seekers. 

 

 

 

 

i think we can all agree on your intention.  the problem of posting a price guideline is that it can cause significant amount of confusion. 

 

use cars as an example - a friend of mine managed to purchase a lexus for over $13,000 below the MSRP because of various reasons - last car on the lot during a recession, only available at this particular dealer, car was last year's model, she was paying cash etc. 

 

we can argue one can get a suit in a similar fashion and post it online "bragging" about it (after all, who is to regulate what to post).

 

now for the experienced shoppers, they would think this is just a one time event or even choose not to believe it.  but for the newbies, they might be fascinated by the price and keep searching for a similar impossible deal.  before we know, we are asking people to post prices at different regions of the world, at different shopping seasons and on different styles.  if we can't keep it simple and uncontroversial, we shouldn't do it. 

post #1164 of 1310
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
 

 

I think this would really help even if the ballparks change. It is better than going blind over there. 

 

It will help to new guys searching. 

 

I think it is about QUALITY of suits but it is also to help people have some idea on which SEGMENT they could afford. 

 

We can talk about how a Lexus is higher quality than Toyota but people also talk about AFFORDABILITY & PRICE for the QUALITY. QUALITY is never discussed without the COST at which it can be HAD. 

 

You could make OBJECTS of PERFECT things, but QUALITY & COST are parameters for all ITEMS one could buy. 

 

Prices of a BMW vary across many countries but people have to first look at AFFORDABILITY and PRICE RANGE before they can even CONSIDER buying one. 

 

For all those who can and already buy the high $ value quality suits it has no meaning, but for many who REALLY and TRULY VALUE this GUIDE, the guys learning the ropes, it is KEY. Because we start with how much we could/ would spend for starters. 

 

It may not be perfect information. But, it would help and NOT confuse the seekers. 

 

 

 

 

i think we can all agree on your intention.  the problem of posting a price guideline is that it can cause significant amount of confusion. 

 

use cars as an example - a friend of mine managed to purchase a lexus for over $13,000 below the MSRP because of various reasons - last car on the lot during a recession, only available at this particular dealer, car was last year's model, she was paying cash etc. 

 

we can argue one can get a suit in a similar fashion and post it online "bragging" about it (after all, who is to regulate what to post).

 

now for the experienced shoppers, they would think this is just a one time event or even choose not to believe it.  but for the newbies, they might be fascinated by the price and keep searching for a similar impossible deal.  before we know, we are asking people to post prices at different regions of the world, at different shopping seasons and on different styles.  if we can't keep it simple and uncontroversial, we shouldn't do it.

 

That lexus purchase is a rare outlier. Then there are seasonal / regular things and sources that people can look at for tips. E.g. Normal MRPs, Black Friday Sales & Prices at that time, A few typical price points would be great for newbies. 

post #1165 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post

That lexus purchase is a rare outlier. Then there are seasonal / regular things and sources that people can look at for tips. E.g. Normal MRPs, Black Friday Sales & Prices at that time, A few typical price points would be great for newbies. 

I believe including price point with this list will be too confusing and difficult as well. The prices can vary widely.

To illustrate, I'll compare pricing for RLBL and Dolce and Gabbana two piece suits as I have experience on both. At retail price, RLBL ranges $1600-1800 while Dolce and Gabbana is between $1800-2200. At at a discounted price, brand new on some reseller websites, here are some examples (not exact price):

RLBL:
Malford of London: $740
Ebay: $450-1200

Dolce and Gabbana:
Yoox: $900-1400
Ebay: $400-1100

RLBL suits are higher quality compared to Dolce and Gabbana but if you look at the prices between the two, they vary widely. Adding price as a factor to the quality criteria of this list will make it complicated. Take note that these prices will even be more varied when sales happen and they can occur at different times of the year.
post #1166 of 1310
+1
Strong argument
post #1167 of 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
 

 

I think this would really help even if the ballparks change. It is better than going blind over there. 

 

It will help to new guys searching. 

 

I think it is about QUALITY of suits but it is also to help people have some idea on which SEGMENT they could afford. 

 

You could make OBJECTS of PERFECT things, but QUALITY & COST are parameters for all ITEMS one could buy. 

 

For all those who can and already buy the high $ value quality suits it has no meaning, but for many who REALLY and TRULY VALUE this GUIDE, the guys learning the ropes, it is KEY. Because we start with how much we could/ would spend for starters. 

 

It may not be perfect information. But, it would help and NOT confuse the seekers. 

 

And that is where you have to do a little leg work beyond letting internet Gods show you the way. We've created a robust list that catalogs many brands that can be found in most countries and we align them along quality: which will not vary from country to country, store to store, or sale to sale. The price you can buy will vary on geography, how you buy, when you buy, and what actual item you buy. If you want to save some money and get a great suit we've given you the tools to start your journey - take initiative and go research what you can buy.

 

If you are shopping in Italy vs the US you'll have very different prices to expect on a Zegna suit. To make a list that would show realistic prices you'd have to make it regional, show all different methods of buying, and qualify the purchase. Buying a staple grey suit in super 120s will be more expensive than the loud print linen suit from the same maker. You might be able to get seasonal and less desirable patterns for X while the basics would be Y.

 

I'd say, if you have the desire to save the most money.

1. determine your budget first

2. know how you want to or are able to buy (MSRP, sale, online, second hand) - if you can only buy from a physical store will be very different than if you're ok buying used off of eBay. Likewise if you need it in a week vs can wait until end of seasons etc.

3. do some research and see what you can get in that range - we've laid out a lot of information. If your budget is $500 and you want to buy NWT Zegna on eBay even 10 minutes of completed listings searches will show you that most sold between $400 and $600, if you call a store you'll hear they run $2.4K MSRP and might be on sale for $1,500. Do the work if you want to save money.

4. find a fit that works with your body from that range

5. buy


Edited by MZhammer - 12/4/13 at 9:13am
post #1168 of 1310
Again +1 on the reasoning and on encouraging noobs to use the list as a starting point on their sartorial journey rather than as a price catalog.

Dressing well is not a question of money in today's world where eBay gives you access to the best second-hand clothing in the world at bargain basement prices, if you know what you're looking for and what quality means.

The list provides people with a good guide to quality. Try on one of the high end suits at the nearest store, take an iphone picture of the inside label with size, drop and model number. Then pick that baby up on eBay for like 90-95% off. If you get it wrong, you'll flip it on eBay and get the same amount back for it -- the top brands keep their resale value below a certain price point, like some value stock whose price doesn't fall below book value per share. Once a top brand name suit hits rock bottom pricing on eBay, it can be traded at that level almost forever, if you take proper care of it.

If I could start all over again, I would take 3000 dollars, invest it in an eBay wardrobe of top quality second-hand suits, and then keep rotating the lot via eBay, changing regularly by selling some suits and buying others back at the same price. It would be like having access to an infinite wardrobe without having to ever to reinvest more than the initial 3k in seed capital.
post #1169 of 1310
For $3k you can probably get 6 high end NWT suits. Doesn't have to be second hand.

For 3k you can get 5-6 Corneliani's or Carusos on eBay. Or 4 RLBL suits.
post #1170 of 1310
True. But with the NWT suits on eBay, you're still gonna take a hit upon resale, because the price may have to drop from low to lower when they move from NWT to second-hand. Only the second-hand suits are almost certain to be resold at the same price. I'm talking of a Canali or Zegna bought for 100-200 euros, which will move again for sure at that price.
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