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The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!) - Page 75

post #1111 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post

Your assumption is wrong as most people google around and then come to SF, join and ask questions. Most newbies come to the list to ASK, and if we know we would not ask. Maybe we should add another category. 
UN-Recommend it in the LIST in a category that you may label - Avoid, Crap, Do not buy. 

I second this sentiment. I came here thinking I knew the basics of suits and was thrilled I could get two suits for 150 at k and g superstore. It wasnt until I was gifted a truely epic suit I knew the difference and only because I was told it would need special care. There are people who really need to know what brands are terrible, because the men's warehouse guys sure aren't telling them.
post #1112 of 1302

Where is the info coming from that Giorgio Armani Black Label is fused? None of my black labels from the past 2-3 years are.

post #1113 of 1302
Quote:
Where is the info coming from that Giorgio Armani Black Label is fused? None of my black labels from the past 2-3 years are.
Where I live, everything Black Label is fused.
post #1114 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloRLOw View Post
 

 

mainline or Silver Label line?

old mainline

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by staxringold View Post

I know it's an internet house, but does anyone have experience with Combatant Gentlemen so we can go ahead and add them under the worst category? I think because I'm browsing clothing websites their ads are constantly popping up on my Facebook.

https://www.combatgent.com

Despite their heavy reminding about the 'super 140s' fabric, I can't imagine how terrible a suit must be that they list for that price.


While I hate to cast stones before we have actual experience aren't the suits retailing at $160? I have trouble believing there can be any redeeming quality beyond the price.

post #1115 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by MZhammer View Post


While I hate to cast stones before we have actual experience aren't the suits retailing at $160? I have trouble believing there can be any redeeming quality beyond the price.

Exactly. Just we're talking about 'warning' people and it's been popping up in my feed a lot (so worth getting in front of, IMO)
post #1116 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by kngnkn View Post

Where is the info coming from that Giorgio Armani Black Label is fused? None of my black labels from the past 2-3 years are.

Go to any store that sells Black Label. The canvassed models are close to 5k and have basting all over them.
post #1117 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSacre View Post

I've never handled Zilli, but Hermes is currently made by Belvest which is properly ranked under very good.

Are Hermes products still made by Belvest? I've noticed more of their sport coats are made in France nowadays, while Belvest products are made in Italy.
post #1118 of 1302
Zilli is made by Pal Zileri I beleive, in their highest level of construction, probably equivalent to the Sartoriale line by PZ.
post #1119 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

Zilli is made by Pal Zileri I beleive, in their highest level of construction, probably equivalent to the Sartoriale line by PZ.

Thanks, I didn't know that.
post #1120 of 1302
Who makes Zilli shoes?
post #1121 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post

I have a Kent Wang MTM and would rank it in the same group quality-wise as my Corneliani jackets.

I purchased (and returned) a..

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsupjs View Post

I have heard of people ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post

It's a great suit for $500,..

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsupjs View Post


That's fair....

Thanks for real valuable input. Corneliani has been one of my fav brands for a long time. If Kent Wang is in the vicinity of that ill i go for it. Wd anyone by chance know what kind of shoulders Wang uses, ie amount of padding, silhouette etc..?
post #1122 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riva View Post
 

In this thread they don't care about cut, only quality and that being only whether full canvassed or not. They don't know how to evaluate stitching or fabric or techniques as they are subjective and can't be used as a quantitative measure of quality or performance indication in the real world. Or perhaps they are afraid that the pockets and buttonholds of a $2500 Isaia jacket falls apart after 5 uses, whereby an el cheapo Armani Collezioni last years. This goes back to the controversial point whereby in the mindset of some people here a full canvas suit is automatically superior to a half canvassed or fused.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MZhammer View Post
 

You seem bitter that people are skeptical about your "bespoke" garments or wearing a Zara suit with an Isaia coral pin but please don't go flooding the thread with misinformation. I can assure you that individuals like Dirnelli and jrd617 have much more experience than you or I in understanding stitching, fabric and production techniques.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

We're not afraid that an Isaia suit will fall apart after 5 wears precisely because many of us own them, have first hand experience and can testify to their value. The point of this thread is to rely on community first-hand knowledge to establish a rough template of what suits fall where, not casting stones at garments we've never experienced. I can speak to a number of different manufacturers because I personally own them. I own fused suits, half canvased suits, and a good deal of canvased garments.

 

I'm not biased against fusing, it's great cost saving technique for getting a sculpted shape for low cost but it's just that: a cost saving measure that loses the comfort, flexibility and life of canvassing to make the process faster and cheaper. Having any old full canvas isn't inherently better, but a well made canvased garment is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riva View Post

Sorry to bring up an old post as I just read this but did this just turned into something personal? If so please PM. Having said that...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have sincere great respect for Dirnelli who is kind enough to spend his time typing and sharing his knowledge. But we're all strangers here so saying one is more experienced than another is a moot point and we should all drop it. My comment regarding Isaia is because precisely most of my OTR pieces are Isaias, just because I like the logo and I treat this as a hobby in addition to altering every single one of them. I'm somewhat of a detail freak so every protruding loose thread I'd cut personally, every weak sections exposed. Some pieces are flawless, most aren't so. So I can claim (the best anyone can do in the net) the integrity of my statement but I certainly would not go around saying someone else is wrong because they have never experienced it. People can choose to believe what they read and everyone lives in different areas of the world with different access to resources. I understand most people have never met a 37 year old entrepreneur with a $50mil net income a year but drives around in a $35k car and sometimes wear a Zara jacket and $90 Orient Mako watch. It is ignorance to assume those people are ignorant about the good stuff of this world and I meant guy toys/accessories. Which goes back to my earlier point regarding a first suit which is #1 image = #1 cut. A freshly graduated college kid looking for a first suit shouldn't be concerned with branding which IMO doesn't truly represent real world performance (comfort, fit, projected image). While we're at it, we should also make sure they don't go buy a cracking Montblanc fountain pens or a death-wish slippery leather outsoled shoes :)

 

Nope, nothing personal but I don't want newcomers to the thread to read that we don't care about stitching quality or fabrics and the sole measure we use to determine construction quality is fused vs canvas - if that was the case we'd have two categories.

 

Your original post, to me, insinuates incorrectly that we're here to preach about brands when it's really quite the opposite; we're here to preach quality and we do so by identifying brands that have consistently impressive quality. That is the misinformation I don't want spreading to new members and it sounded to me that your assertion was more backlash against something rather than an attempt to further the discussion. My apologies if I am wrong.

 

I absolutely agree that cut is the first most important aspect to consider for anyone but again, that is entirely dependent on personal style and body type. Telling a college grad who is 6'4" and 280 lbs to go buy a Zara suit with high arm holes and a suppressed waist makes as little sense as telling him to go buy a MTM Oxxford suit. The idea here is to arm people with knowledge so that they can find a fit that speaks to them in a quality level they can afford.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riva View Post

Bottomline $800 max for a finished suit off the rack or online. Anything above should consider MTM or bespoke. Just get anything with 100% wool that fits you best. Doesn't have to be perfect and altered if the suit is only for interview, I'm sure they care more about your qualification than appearance in the military or legal. If possible $350 and save the rest for a real suit when you have the time to get a proper one.

 

One more piece about your recommendation to go MTM or Bespoke: I think a lot of the thread isn't at your income level (myself included) so it necessitates finding good deals. I want to wear the best stuff I can, that fits me, so I buy a lot off of eBay. I just purchased a NWT Raffaele Caruso Sartoria Parma sport coat for around $200 because I know the fit and my measurements. The thing fits like a dream and is much higher quality than I could get for the money elsewhere or, probably, at any MTM outlet for $800. After all, I can get NWT Kiton jackets on ebay for just over $800. I bring this up because I think you might be looking at MSRP when a lot of us are looking at eBay, yoox, gilt and sale prices for the target price. I could be wrong though.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaand just so we're staying on trend, a bump of the most recent list:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Disclaimer: This list is intended to recommend suits that have been evaluated first hand by the SF community based on construction quality. Brands not on the list have either not been evaluated or do not meet the minimum requirements to be recommended at any budget level. The list does not include criteria for fit, as it is subjective and differs for each body type, nor does it offer criteria for fabric or styling. If you're brand new to buying a suit, consider the fit of a garment before any other factors.
 

Excellent [*****]
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli

- Caraceni
- Kiton
- Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
- Luigi Borrelli

- Oxxford (Highest Quality)
- Sartoria Castangia
- St Andrew / Santandrea
- La Vera Sartoria Napoletana
- Zegna Couture/Tom Ford

Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

- Battistoni

- Belvest mainline
- Borrelli Luxury Vintage
- Canali Milano
- Corneliani Linea Sartoria
- D'Avenza
- Isaia
- Oxxford (1220)
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
- Ravazzolo

- Sartoria Partenopea
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
- RLPL
- Sartorio
- Stile Latino

Good[***] (IE: Quality is superior to most suits.)

- Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
- Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
- Brunello Cucinelli (very nice fabrics)
- Canali mainline
- Canali Exclusive (higher end fabrics)
- Cantarelli mainline
- Corneliani mainline
- Dunhill
- Ermenegildo Zegna
- Faconnable Tailleur
- Hickey Freeman Mainline

- J. Press Pressidential (full canvas)
- Kei by Canali (full canvas, but very soft)

- Martin Greenfield for Gilt, BoO, FSC, & O&S (fully canvassed)
- Pal Zileri mainline
- Paul Smith mainline (fully canvassed)
- Paul Stuart
- Raffaelle Caruso mainline
- RLBL

- Robert Talbott (Made in USA by Martin Greenfield)
- Samuelsohn

Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)

- Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)

- Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)

- Boggi
- Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
- Burberry Prorsum
- Cantarelli Tailor
- Charles Tyrwhitt
- CC Corneliani (half canvassed)
- Coppley (half canvassed)
- Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
- Gucci
- H. Freemann
- Hackett (half canvassed)
- Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
- Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
- J. Press Presstige (half canvassed)
- Lardini (half canvassed)
- L.B.M. 1911
- Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
- Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
- Piombo
- Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)

- Prada (half canvassed)
- Peter Millar
- Suit Supply (half canvassed)
- Valentino (half canvassed)

Mediocre[*] (Suits that are mediocre.)


- Armani Collezioni (fused)
- Calvin Klein Collection (now fused)

- Corneliani Trend (fused)
- Dolce & Gabbana
- Hickey (now fused and made in China)
- Hugo Boss (fused)

- J. Press mainline (fused; decent fabrics)
- J Crew Ludlow (fused)
- Joseph Abboud
- Pal Zileri Lab
- Versace Collection
- Z Zegna

 


Edited by MZhammer - 11/13/13 at 6:42am
post #1123 of 1302

Great list guys! Very useful.

 

What do you think about Boggi? They have an online shop but I'm not sure whether they ship internationally. However it's one of the go-to brands for young professionals in Italy (Milan in particular).

 

They have both half canvassed and fully canvassed suits, and the quality of the fabrics is usually pretty decent. IMHO it's a SuitSupply 2.0, with higher prices but higher quality as well. That would mean either 2 or 3 stars for them.

 

I bought 1 suit from them and I'm very satisfied.

post #1124 of 1302
Boggi are OK in my opinion - however, nothing fantastic. Very firmly in the "Satisfactory" category.
post #1125 of 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprezziamo View Post
 

Great list guys! Very useful.

 

What do you think about Boggi? They have an online shop but I'm not sure whether they ship internationally. However it's one of the go-to brands for young professionals in Italy (Milan in particular).

 

They have both half canvassed and fully canvassed suits, and the quality of the fabrics is usually pretty decent. IMHO it's a SuitSupply 2.0, with higher prices but higher quality as well. That would mean either 2 or 3 stars for them.

 

I bought 1 suit from them and I'm very satisfied.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

2) no one is mentionning on this thread the ultimate brand for cheap yet very convincing rtw: Boggi. That is the best suit & jacket brand in the inexpensive category, imho. Also great for everything else btw. (When Lander Urquijo ramps up distribution, if they ever do, they could also become a serious contender in that category.)

I would agree with Ich_Dien. The one suit I've handled was a good deal but not on par with anything in the "Good" category. They're a great value for the satisfactory category.

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