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The NBA Playoffs - Page 3

post #31 of 209
A few comments:

Patrick, I agree that the Showtime era was vastly superior. In fact, pretty much any era prior to around 1990 was better. Much faster paced and higher scoring. Less like football and more like what Naismith invented.

I like Bill Walton. And, I DO think that if his UCLA team had been playing in the NCAA this year, they would definitely have won. Of course, that assumes they were all at the same level they were when they were playing at UCLA. Wooden is the best coach at any level ever.

And, the Lakers really clamped down on the Suns last night. Their defense vastly improved. One very "right on" comment was made by one of the announcers that the Lakers were not fouling nearly as much as in the first game. They were using their feet to move into better position. Kwame is really developing a lot more under PJ. PJ's advice is finally sinking in. I'm glad for the kid.
post #32 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
Steve is the leader that Kobe is not, and that LeBron and Elton will be (though neither is yet). Dirk would've been my second pick, but Steve's Canadian. I am confused though. Steve Nash is easily my favorite player in the league, but I've always been a Laker's fan. Now, I can't figure out who to cheer for. It's like "Go Phoenix!!! No! No! No! Go Lakers!"

a leader whose defense is atrocious. Phoenix's uptempo style pretty much masked it during the regular season but against a good team with a disciplined defense, they'll get hammered. Nash's idea of playing defense is flopping all over the place. He's the most overrated player on the most overrated team, with or without Amare. There's a reason why Dallas is a far better team without Nash, who was basically the same player he is now.
post #33 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamo
a leader whose defense is atrocious. Phoenix's uptempo style pretty much masked it during the regular season but against a good team with a disciplined defense, they'll get hammered. Nash's idea of playing defense is flopping all over the place. He's the most overrated player on the most overrated team, with or without Amare. There's a reason why Dallas is a far better team without Nash, who was basically the same player he is now.

But the up tempo pace is what Steve brings to the table. I always liked the old Dallas offense. People called it a "running" offense, but really what it was was Steve running around like a crazy man until he found Dirk miraculously open. And on the occasional game the old Dallas team played defense, it was the same frenetic type of thing. Steve brings energy to a team like no one else can. As for flopping, the dude is AI's size. Not much mure than 6' and about 170 lbs. That's not flopping when a 250 lb, 6'8" dude collides with you. That's plain old falling down. Don't be a hater.
post #34 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy
But the up tempo pace is what Steve brings to the table. I always liked the old Dallas offense. People called it a "running" offense, but really what it was was Steve running around like a crazy man until he found Dirk miraculously open. And on the occasional game the old Dallas team played defense, it was the same frenetic type of thing. Steve brings energy to a team like no one else can. As for flopping, the dude is AI's size. Not much mure than 6' and about 170 lbs. That's not flopping when a 250 lb, 6'8" dude collides with you. That's plain old falling down. Don't be a hater.

he does flop excessively. so does the rest of the suns team, including raja, boris, etc. No team flopped more during the regular season than the suns did. Nash is starting to look more like Manu everyday. i agree he brings energy, and he's a great player. But i simply cannot believe that he's getting a second MVP. For crying out loud, Shaq only has one. Just goes to show you how stupid the voters are.
post #35 of 209
When you can post a record at the top of the league without your highest scoring player and best rebounder, when you can make the players around you who have had very little success before Phoenix better, and at the same time post career numbers that's good enough for me. I think the only other person close is perhaps Lebron in terms of meaning to a team. Without Lebron the cavs are under .500. However Lebron, while he is a good passer, doesn't make the players around him better, he is just a one man wrecking crew. Kobe is the same way, except Kobe is just an excellent player, unlike Lebron him playing good doesn't necessarily mean his team will win. As far as flopping, refs have made flopping a part of the game. A LOT of people do it so to single out Nash is absurd. It is just like standing there when you take the charge and falling down to make it obvious that there is a charge rather than trying to stay up. If the ref doesn't see it, it doesn't get called so you see players make the calls as obvious as possible. I hate flopping but its been around for a while.
post #36 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
When you can post a record at the top of the league without your highest scoring player and best rebounder, when you can make the players around you who have had very little success before Phoenix better, and at the same time post career numbers that's good enough for me.

I think the only other person close is perhaps Lebron in terms of meaning to a team. Without Lebron the cavs are under .500. However Lebron, while he is a good passer, doesn't make the players around him better, he is just a one man wrecking crew. Kobe is the same way, except Kobe is just an excellent player, unlike Lebron him playing good doesn't necessarily mean his team will win.

As far as flopping, refs have made flopping a part of the game. A LOT of people do it so to single out Nash is absurd. It is just like standing there when you take the charge and falling down to make it obvious that there is a charge rather than trying to stay up. If the ref doesn't see it, it doesn't get called so you see players make the calls as obvious as possible. I hate flopping but its been around for a while.


singling out nash? are you kidding? i don't have the stats in front of me but nash is one of the worst floppers out there. a lot of people do it but most of them play a semblance of d. Nash hops around and is almost always out of position. He plays NO d. and just to be correct, amare's not the sun's leading rebounder, not by a long shot. as said before, Suns are a highly overrated team built for the regular season and Nash just might be the worst MVP winner, not to mention repeat recipient, in the history of the NBA.
post #37 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
I think the only other person close is perhaps Lebron in terms of meaning to a team. Without Lebron the cavs are under .500. However Lebron, while he is a good passer, doesn't make the players around him better, he is just a one man wrecking crew. Kobe is the same way, except Kobe is just an excellent player, unlike Lebron him playing good doesn't necessarily mean his team will win.

you do realize that most teams in the west would get knocked up quite a few spots in the standings if they played in the east.
post #38 of 209
Quote:
Steve is the leader that Kobe is not, and that LeBron and Elton will be (though neither is yet). Dirk would've been my second pick, but Steve's Canadian. I am confused though. Steve Nash is easily my favorite player in the league, but I've always been a Laker's fan. Now, I can't figure out who to cheer for. It's like "Go Phoenix!!! No! No! No! Go Lakers!"

Try being a Lakers fan in San Antonio...
post #39 of 209
I think your hatred of the Suns and Nash or some personal vendetta against them is blinding your judgement of their position. If they were as bad as you say without one of their top 2 players and with injuries throughout the season they wouldn't be a top seed in the playoffs. The west isn't as dominate as it used to be. The timberwolves are horrendous now, the Lakers mediocre, and many of the perennial powers like the Kings done while in the East the Heat, Pistons, Nets and others have risen. I think it was more even this year than it has been in years.
post #40 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
I think your hatred of the Suns and Nash or some personal vendetta against them is blinding your judgement of their position. If they were as bad as you say without one of their top 2 players and with injuries throughout the season they wouldn't be a top seed in the playoffs. The west isn't as dominate as it used to be. The timberwolves are horrendous now, the Lakers mediocre, and many of the perennial powers like the Kings done while in the East the Heat, Pistons, Nets and others have risen. I think it was more even this year than it has been in years.
edit: i apologize, i did go overboard with that post. what can i say? i'm a rabid fan...
post #41 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
I think your hatred of the Suns and Nash or some personal vendetta against them is blinding your judgement of their position. If they were as bad as you say without one of their top 2 players and with injuries throughout the season they wouldn't be a top seed in the playoffs.

Right...... like the casual fans who thought Phoenix was an elite team last season. Even without poor Amare, I wonder how the "#2 seed's" struggling massively against the mediocre lakers. Not to mention they'd be crushed against the Clips in the 2nd round. Phoenix doesn't even deserve to be mentioned alongside 2nd tier teams like the Grizzlieds, Clippers or any other balanced team out there. This team stinks in the half court set. As I've said before, they'll get away with wins during the regular season but they've got no chance in the playoffs. And really, don't spout about my 'hatred.' I'll give where credit is due, and all the credit Nash deserves is putting a mask over the voters as to what a crappy team they really have. The MVP voting's turned out to be a farce, as usual
post #42 of 209
Ok fine, just to end this endless attempt at a discussion to a brick wall, you win.
post #43 of 209
Lamo: The Suns are definitely NOT as bad asyou say they are. And, if the Lakers don't beat them, then I wish they would win it all. Mainly because it might bring basketball back to a more exciting sport - faster paced and higher scoring. Don't think it will happen though. The Spurs are too good.

Also, the East IS better this year than last year. Although that doesn't say much because the Least set a new record for biggest gap by having a 111 game difference vs the West. This year it was "only" a 74 game gap. So, instead of Least, maybe it's now "Lesser."
post #44 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionology
Ok fine, just to end this endless attempt at a discussion to a brick wall, you win.

refute something i said if you'd like to make it a discussion
post #45 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachbeet
Lamo: The Suns are definitely NOT as bad asyou say they are. And, if the Lakers don't beat them, then I wish they would win it all. Mainly because it might bring basketball back to a more exciting sport - faster paced and higher scoring. Don't think it will happen though. The Spurs are too good.

Also, the East IS better this year than last year. Although that doesn't say much because the Least set a new record for biggest gap by having a 111 game difference vs the West. This year it was "only" a 74 game gap. So, instead of Least, maybe it's now "Lesser."

Mike D'antoni's game plan. Give the ball to Nash and let everyone shoot away. It's exciting and for one thing proves to the naysayers that today's basketball skillwise isn't as bad as they say. It also proves that playing nilch defense won't get you anywhere. As for the Suns being overrated, Shawn Marion is the perfect example of that. Great numbers, underrated for a very long time but not a guy who can create his own shot or guard anyone with half decent size. All of a sudden, his numbers are inflated and now he's considered a darkhorse MVP candidate... Again, my biggest gripe with Nash is that he plays no defense and his numbers are inflated. and for some of the voters, the stats sway them. Come on, this is the same Nash who played in Dallas and got RIPPED for his lack of defense and got severely outplayed by Bibby. In my opinion, the Suns are a better team than the Lakers and OUGHT to win but they won't get past the Clippers.
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