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"all weather cut and thrust driving" - Page 2

post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
I did notice that the general forum had a good amount of, erm, strangeness
Pattonesque Posturing.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
Pattonesque Posturing.

That is a very polite and tactful description .
Ok, I simply must ask this then. Do you have any preferred vendors and dealers that would have good quality antique koshirae? I have not bought any fittings in a while and I am feeling the itch again
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnapril
What does this term--"all weather cut and thrust driving"--mean? I discovered it in an automotive periodical while having my car's oil changed at Jiffy Lube.

From the relatively safe confines of the customer lounge at Jiffy Lube, Mr. April, you have been cut and thrust into the battlefields of military history! Do you own any swords? I think it's so much fun to follow the meandering threads on SF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
The theory is that a thrust is a quicker and more precise action than a trust, . . .

I'm a little bit confused. When you wrote "trust", did you mean "cut"?

Simply fascinating! The discussion of military battle swords and knives is genuinely interesting to me. Perhaps J can create an entirely new category for such topics in general? Gentlemen, don't cut yourselves with those mighty blades.
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Canvas
From the relatively safe confines of the customer lounge at Jiffy Lube, Mr. April, you have been cut and thrust into the battlefields of military history! Do you own any swords? I think it's so much fun to follow the meandering threads on SF.



I'm a little bit confused. When you wrote "trust", did you mean "cut"?

Simply fascinating! The discussion of military battle swords and knives is genuinely interesting to me. Perhaps J can create an entirely new category for such topics in general? Gentlemen, don't cut yourselves with those mighty blades.
________________________________

I'd be open for that; I can give a little info on (ironically) Japanese pre-Meiji weaponry and tactics (although I would not ever profess to being an expert).
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
That is a very polite and tactful description . Ok, I simply must ask this then. Do you have any preferred vendors and dealers that would have good quality antique koshirae? I have not bought any fittings in a while and I am feeling the itch again
Mmmno, sorry, but it seems to me that SwordForum is the answer...I don't come across that many Japanese blades, really, and koshirae (let's call them all the trimmings on the hilt and scabbard) of any quality. Of general arms dealers, Michael D. Long is well-respected: http://www.michaeldlong.com/Ko-Kat/C...of%20Origin/E9 He's not above searching out little bits of trimmings either. This item really answers your question, btw: http://www.michaeldlong.com/ko-kat/C...n/E9/98893.htm Just compare the Japanese pattern 1889 to the clearly related pattern 1913 Patton sabre, and you have the answer. The only exception are tsubas, which have a separate collectors' market of their own. I suggest specialist auctions - these two occasionally have good tsubas: http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/ http://www.hermann-historica.com/ (Specialised German auction house) Very interesting articles about the technical side of damascus steel, etc: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/patterns.html And for Western arms at the billionaire price level, and correspondent quality, Peter Finer of Duke Street, St. James, London: http://diadama.com/peterFiner/Movie.html
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
Mmmno, sorry, but it seems to me that SwordForum is the answer...I don't come across that many Japanese blades, really, and koshirae (let's call them all the trimmings on the hilt and scabbard) of any quality.

Of general arms dealers, Michael D. Long is well-respected:

http://www.michaeldlong.com/Ko-Kat/C...of%20Origin/E9

He's not above searching out little bits of trimmings either. This item really answers your question, btw:

http://www.michaeldlong.com/ko-kat/C...n/E9/98893.htm

Just compare the Japanese pattern 1889 to the clearly related pattern 1913 Patton sabre, and you have the answer.

The only exception are tsubas, which have a separate collectors' market of their own. I suggest specialist auctions - these two occasionally have good tsubas:

http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/

http://www.hermann-historica.com/ (Specialised German auction house)

Very interesting articles about the technical side of damascus steel, etc:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/patterns.html

And for Western arms at the billionaire price level, and correspondent quality, Peter Finer of Duke Street, St. James, London:

http://diadama.com/peterFiner/Movie.html

Great, thank you!
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Canvas
I'm a little bit confused. When you wrote "trust", did you mean "cut"
Oops, dang, of course I did, thanks, FC. Edited.
post #23 of 24
To kill or disable an opponent with an edged weapon you have a choice between damaging the mechanicals or the hydraulics.

LS - this is a perfect quote, thank you.



it seems to me, from a laymans perspective, that most of the cane swords that I have seen from the 19th and earliest 20th century - lets say civillian swords from the industrial period - were made to create a triangular bayonnet like stab wound. so that one would thrust with the weapon, and produce the largest possible hole, while keeping the blade with the smallest possible "footprint". as these were not meant to be used by well trained men, it might be infered that it was considered simpler to damage an opponent with a thrust than a cut.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter
To kill or disable an opponent with an edged weapon you have a choice between damaging the mechanicals or the hydraulics. LS - this is a perfect quote, thank you. it seems to me, from a laymans perspective, that most of the cane swords that I have seen from the 19th and earliest 20th century - lets say civillian swords from the industrial period - were made to create a triangular bayonnet like stab wound. so that one would thrust with the weapon, and produce the largest possible hole, while keeping the blade with the smallest possible "footprint". as these were not meant to be used by well trained men, it might be infered that it was considered simpler to damage an opponent with a thrust than a cut.
I believe you are right regarding the simplicity of the thrust versus the cut. It has been a bone of contention for a while though as far as efficacy is concerned. I recall reading somewhere that unpess we are talking SERIOUS puncture wound (ie puncture vital organs) it is not always as efficacious at, uhm, eliminating the external threat I need to find that article now. On a sidenote, it is my understanding that the primacy of cutting/slashing versus thrusting in japanese bugei was due to the inneficiencies they found with their older, albeit worse made, swords and related techniques during the Mongol invasions. The kissaki (tip) would be highly prone to snapping off when caught in the invaders maille and leather armour, which would often render the sword's structural rigidity down to nothing. The imported Korean/Chinese steelworking techniques of later centuries did rectify a lot of that though. Wow, we are wildly off-topic, lol.
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