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"all weather cut and thrust driving"

post #1 of 24
4/21/06 at 8:43am
Thread Starter 
What does this term--"all weather cut and thrust driving"--mean? I discovered it in an automotive periodical while having my car's oil changed at Jiffy Lube.
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post #2 of 24
4/21/06 at 9:21am
This is for cutting and thrusting. I don't know how you would do that with a car. Marketing-speak is baffling.¨
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post #3 of 24
4/21/06 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnapril
What does this term--"all weather cut and thrust driving"--mean? I discovered it in an automotive periodical while having my car's oil changed at Jiffy Lube.

Driving with a devil-may-care attitude using swift, decisive actions and seemingly without caution regardless of climate conditions is likely what the author meant. The term "cut and thrust" typically refers to knife fighting. So, Lucky Strike's sword is the best choice in a knife fight!

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post #4 of 24
4/21/06 at 10:02am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, guys. I just wondered if this was a new term, and how it evolved in modern usage. Also, does it have anything to do with cars getting smaller and more agile? Or can an Escalade also cut and thrust?
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post #5 of 24
4/21/06 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnapril
Thanks, guys. I just wondered if this was a new term, and how it evolved in modern usage. Also, does it have anything to do with cars getting smaller and more agile? Or can an Escalade also cut and thrust?

I would prefer to do my "all weather cut and thrust driving" in a vehicle that actually felt connected to the road surface. The relatively cloud-like ride of the Escalade may not inspire that style as much as the certain and immediate feel of an Exige in all weather conditions.
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post #6 of 24
4/21/06 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Canvas
Driving with a devil-may-care attitude using swift, decisive actions and seemingly without caution regardless of climate conditions is likely what the author meant. The term "cut and thrust" typically refers to knife fighting. So, Lucky Strike's sword is the best choice in a knife fight!

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No, definitely sword fighting (or a type of sword).

Aus
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post #7 of 24
4/21/06 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus_MD
No, definitely sword fighting (or a type of sword). Aus
Well, it's a theory of sword-fighting, typically on horseback. There's always been some debate about whether the ideal cavalry sword should have a curved or straight blade. The theory is that a thrust is a quicker and more precise action than a cut, but requires more ability and cool-headed-ness from the cavalryman. The same theory goes for knife-fighting. http://members.iinet.net.au/~bill/ha.../cuthrust.html The latest consensus, which was reached around 1900, was that a heavyish, straight blade, primarily for thrusting, was the ideal. In the US, the best example would probably be the 1913 pattern "Patton" sabre, designed by the then Second Lieutenant George S. Patton, Jr., Master of the Sword at the Mounted Service School, Fifteenth Cavalry. Many regard this pattern as the technical high point of sword design. It draws strongly from British and Spanish models, though. After this point in time, blank weapons were quickly relegated to the parade ground, rather than the battlefield. Sorry about hi-jacking the thread, johnapril. Thank you for the violence, though.
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post #8 of 24
4/21/06 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 
I prefer talk of combat weapons to cars anyday.
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post #9 of 24
4/21/06 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
Well, it's a theory of sword-fighting, typically on horseback. There's always been some debate about whether the ideal cavalry sword should have a curved or straight blade. The theory is that a thrust is a quicker and more precise action than a trust, but requires more ability and cool-headed-ness from the cavalryman. The same theory goes for knife-fighting.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bill/ha.../cuthrust.html

The latest consensus, which was reached around 1900, was that a heavyish, straight blade, primarily for thrusting, was the ideal. In the US, the best example would probably be the 1913 pattern "Patton" sabre, designed by the then Second Lieutenant George S. Patton, Jr., Master of the Sword at the Mounted Service School, Fifteenth Cavalry. Many regard this pattern as the technical high point of sword design. It draws strongly from British and Spanish models, though.


After this point in time, blank weapons were quickly relegated to the parade ground, rather than the battlefield.

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread, johnapril. Thank you for the violence, though.

good post. Question for you; tachi were used mostly for slashing in Japan during the sengoku jidai so they were curved; even the later "sidearm" type wakizashi/katana/o-dachi blades were at least mildly curved. Do you know if with the arrival of Admiral Perry and the subsequent French, British and German military influence they changed tactics with approach to cavalry sword usage? I have found surprisingly little on it (yes, I know, shame on me fior not knowing this ).

Edited to remove extraneous jpg.
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post #10 of 24
4/21/06 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
Well, it's a theory of sword-fighting, typically on horseback. There's always been some debate about whether the ideal cavalry sword should have a curved or straight blade. The theory is that a thrust is a quicker and more precise action than a trust, but requires more ability and cool-headed-ness from the cavalryman. The same theory goes for knife-fighting. http://members.iinet.net.au/~bill/ha.../cuthrust.html The latest consensus, which was reached around 1900, was that a heavyish, straight blade, primarily for thrusting, was the ideal. In the US, the best example would probably be the 1913 pattern "Patton" sabre, designed by the then Second Lieutenant George S. Patton, Jr., Master of the Sword at the Mounted Service School, Fifteenth Cavalry. Many regard this pattern as the technical high point of sword design. It draws strongly from British and Spanish models, though. After this point in time, blank weapons were quickly relegated to the parade ground, rather than the battlefield. Sorry about hi-jacking the thread, johnapril. Thank you for the violence, though.
Did he use that method/design on the Bonus Marchers?
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post #11 of 24
4/21/06 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
Question for you; tachi were used mostly for slashing in Japan during the sengoku jidai so they were curved; even the later "sidearm" type wakizashi/katana/o-dachi blades were at least mildly curved. Do you know if with the arrival of Admiral Perry and the subsequent French, British and German military influence they changed tactics with approach to cavalry sword usage?
Well - I don't really know too much about Eastern arms, but I do know that the traditional Japanese long and medium-length blade (katana and wakizashi, respectively) are cutting, and not thrusting blades. Another point is that Japan didn't really have cavalry in the Western sense until around WWI, - and by then, cavalry charges had become a less interesting tactic. I would think that the Japanese watched this change of the role of cavalry as closely as they watched other Western developments in the Meiji period. My theory would then be that the Japanese got heavy, westernised cavalry cavalry quite early, - and then probably found that it didn't work very well in Japanese terrain, and then quickly abandoned it in time with the West's experiences in WWI. So, Patton's "thrust, not cut" theories from around 1910 hardly had time to take hold before what he calls "Mounted Swordsmanship" was obsolete anyway. The Japanese wouldn't have time to catch on and implement the "Patton-style" heavy cavalry before heavy cavalry was obsolete altogether. An example: The westernised blades adapted for the 1936 pattern non-commissioned officers' sabres have broad fullers on completely un-Japanese blades, but with a garish cast copy of a traditional Japanese hilt. The com. officers' pattern, however, were just cheapish but precise copies of traditional katanas, with fake temper-lines along the edge and all. These are both parade-ground weapons, although less so the non-com's pattern than the officer's. (An aside: As almost everywhere else, an officer's sword was supposed to be of symbolic importance to him, perhaps particularly in the Japanese culture, so the officers were permitted to privately purchase high-quality swords of the same pattern. In some rare cases, fantastic, even signed, older blades have been found with the usual crap-quality hilts and cheap regulation tsubas (guards). These have probably been heirlooms.) Two great articles on Meiji period military history: http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/katsukaishu.php http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/sakamoto-ryoma.php And here's the young Patton on the history of the use of heavy cavalry: http://www.pattonhq.com/textfiles/mounted.html
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The saber is solely a weapon of offense and is used in conjunction with the other offensive weapon, the horse. In all training, the idea of speed must be conserved. No direct parries are taught, because at the completion of a parry the enemy is already beyond the reach of attack. The surest parry is a disabled opponent.
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In a charge, the trooper is merely a projectile, the saber its point.
Yep, that's Patton.
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post #12 of 24
4/21/06 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by j
Did he use that method/design on the Bonus Marchers?
It was the standard heavy cavalry pattern, and the latest one. I suppose so. The trouble about Patton, the old perv, was that he just loved war too much. I always thought Marlon Brando modelled Col. Kurtz somewhat after Patton in Apocalypse Now.
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post #13 of 24
4/21/06 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
[color=black][font=Verdana](An aside: As almost everywhere else, an officer’s sword was supposed to be of symbolic importance to him, perhaps particularly in the Japanese culture, so the officers were permitted to privately purchase high-quality swords of the same pattern. In some rare cases, fantastic, even signed, older blades have been found with the usual crap-quality hilts and cheap regulation tsubas (guards). These have probably been heirlooms.) Two great articles on Meiji period military history: http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/katsukaishu.php http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/sakamoto-ryoma.php
Good info, thanks. Yeah, I was aware of the whole gunto issue in Japan. There were even during the war some smiths making nihonto in the traditional way, together with the stamped POS issued to officers that did not come from bushi families. If I recall correctly I think I have seen up close a wartime period traditional nihonto that my sensei owns; nice blade and definately nothing like the stamped steel and stainless steel gunto of the same period. Will have to spend some quality time with those links. Edit: Crap! I just noticed those links were to Swordforum. Do you post over there? I have not visited in months but I used to frequent it a lot before I found Styleforum
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post #14 of 24
4/21/06 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalogre
Crap! I just noticed those links were to Swordforum. Do you post over there? I have not visited in months but I used to frequent it a lot before I found Styleforum
No, I just used to lurk there for a bit - I think the articles there are generally better than the forum. But the articles are very good, sometimes.
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post #15 of 24
4/21/06 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
No, I just used to lurk there for a bit - I think the articles there are generally better than the forum. But the articles are very good, sometimes.

Hmm, I usually just stayed around the JSA and antique japanese sword/fittings forums. I did notice that the general forum had a good amount of, erm, strangeness
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