Best Martini... Old fashion or New Age

Has all that can be done to a Martini... be done. What happen to the old fashion Martini. Do people drink it with some shave ice in the glass, or with a twist of lemon, i realize Martinis have started their own markets.

Originally Posted by MrBon

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Has all that can be done to a Martini... be done. What happen to the old fashion Martini. Do people drink it with some shave ice in the glass, or with a twist of lemon, i realize Martinis have started their own markets.

Actually, a Martini is by definition, not old fashioned. It is of the new fangled, spirit, modifier, bitters cocktail family.

if you're drinking a gin martini with a twist of lime while listening to a cassette of ocean waves... is that both?

Where does the dirty vodka martini, straight up rank?

Originally Posted by auto_pilot

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Where does the dirty vodka martini, straight up rank?

Technically, there is no such thing as a vodka Martini. I think that's called Kangaroo Kicker.

What do you call this...Beefeater gin martini over a large hunk of ice in an old-fashioned glass, large olive, not dirty? That was the best I ever had, White Star on LES.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Actually, a Martini is by definition, not old fashioned. It is of the new fangled, spirit, modifier, bitters cocktail family.

I think he says "old fashioned martini" only to differentiate it from these new bastardizations that are around, such as the choclatini, etc... Things that are basically 3/4 kool aid and 1/4 vodka.

its like anything put together and poured into a martini glass becomes a martini, i look at at a martini menu once and couldn't believe what's called a martini.

My favorite is Hendricks with a slice of cucumber.

I wish that chocolatinis etc would disappear pronto.

Originally Posted by Aaron01

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I think he says "old fashioned martini" only to differentiate it from these new bastardizations that are around, such as the choclatini, etc... Things that are basically 3/4 kool aid and 1/4 vodka.

Could well be. One of our very knowledgeable posters, Huntsman, has turned me on to several websites, and I have found more. I've also been reading some books, and the history and technical naming is very interesting.

Originally Posted by MrBon

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Has all that can be done to a Martini... be done. What happen to the old fashion Martini. Do people drink it with some shave ice in the glass, or with a twist of lemon, i realize Martinis have started their own markets.

There's going to be a lot of different opinions on this but, having served thousands of martinis to the affluent, my take on it is this:

A true martini is 2oz gin and 5-6 drops of dry vermouth, stirred with ice and strained into an "up" (martini) glass and garnished with an olive. I understand that originally (or so I've been told and wiki confirms this) that a martini calls for 1/5 vermouth. In my book a "dry martini" only has 1 drop of vermouth and an "extra dry" has 1 drop swirled around the glass and "whipped out".

When a martini is ordered though, I found it unavoidable to ask "gin or vodka?" because well over half (probably 70%+) want vodka. Most seemed oblivious that a martini was made with anything other than vodka

As far as the shaved ice goes you are essentially getting to the core of what makes a "good" martini. The object is to chill the liquor as cold as you can without diluting it with water from the ice. Essentially, if you have an up glass and a bottle in the freezer all you have to do is add 1-6 drops of vermouth and your garnish (olive) and you have the "perfect martini". The shaved ice comes from shaking a martini, which also seems to be the "standard" now (as opposed to stirring a martini as a purist would). A sign of a "good" shaken martini is little shards of ice floating in the top of the cocktail after it has been poured through a strainer.

I was told, and find it true, that being a bartender is more about showmanship than anything else. My recipe for the "perfect martini" was as follows:

1) Add ice to an up glass and fill it with soda water.
2) Put my finger over the Vermouth pourer and carefully add 6 drops to the mixing tumbler.
3) Add a 2 count (2 oz) of alcohol to the mixing tumbler.
4) Add 5-6 cubes of ice to the tumbler and shake like hell for about 5 seconds, rest 2 seconds and shake like hell for another 5 seconds all while pouring the ice/water out of your glass and "whipping" the excess droplets onto the ground.
5) Strain the cocktail into the glass so that it comes nearly level with the rim and (this is what will really impress the customer) shake twice to get every last drop into the glass.
6) Set the martini in front of the customer and add your olive, which should push the martini just over the rim of the glass without any of it "bursting the bubble" and dribbling out. At this point the customer should have to lean over and sip the drink before picking it up

But yeah, all the appletinis, chocolatinis, etc. are just complete bastardizations of what is basically chilled vodka.

Originally Posted by Faded501s

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There's going to be a lot of different opinions on this but, having served thousands of martinis to the affluent, my take on it is this: A true martini is 2oz gin and 5-6 drops of dry vermouth, stirred with ice and strained into an "up" (martini) glass and garnished with an olive. I understand that originally (or so I've been told and wiki confirms this) that a martini calls for 1/5 vermouth. In my book a "dry martini" only has 1 drop of vermouth and an "extra dry" has 1 drop swirled around the glass and "whipped out". When a martini is ordered though, I found it unavoidable to ask "gin or vodka?" because well over half (probably 70%+) want vodka. Most seemed oblivious that a martini was made with anything other than vodka

As far as the shaved ice goes you are essentially getting to the core of what makes a "good" martini. The object is to chill the liquor as cold as you can without diluting it with water from the ice. Essentially, if you have an up glass and a bottle in the freezer all you have to do is add 1-6 drops of vermouth and your garnish (olive) and you have the "perfect martini". The shaved ice comes from shaking a martini, which also seems to be the "standard" now (as opposed to stirring a martini as a purist would). A sign of a "good" shaken martini is little shards of ice floating in the top of the cocktail after it has been poured through a strainer. I was told, and find it true, that being a bartender is more about showmanship than anything else. My recipe for the "perfect martini" was as follows: 1) Add ice to an up glass and fill it with soda water. 2) Put my finger over the Vermouth pourer and carefully add 6 drops to the mixing tumbler. 3) Add a 2 count (2 oz) of alcohol to the mixing tumbler. 4) Add 5-6 cubes of ice to the tumbler and shake like hell for about 5 seconds, rest 2 seconds and shake like hell for another 5 seconds all while pouring the ice/water out of your glass and "whipping" the excess droplets onto the ground. 5) Strain the cocktail into the glass so that it comes nearly level with the rim and (this is what will really impress the customer) shake twice to get every last drop into the glass. 6) Set the martini in front of the customer and add your olive, which should push the martini just over the rim of the glass without any of it "bursting the bubble" and dribbling out. At this point the customer should have to lean over and sip the drink before picking it up

But yeah, all the appletinis, chocolatinis, etc. are just complete bastardizations of what is basically chilled vodka.
I could be wrong, but what makes a martini "perfect," is using both sweet and dry vermouth. Also, a martini needs a dash of bitters, usually orange.

Originally Posted by Faded501s

Click to expand...

There's going to be a lot of different opinions on this but, having served thousands of martinis to the affluent, my take on it is this: A true martini is 2oz gin and 5-6 drops of dry vermouth, stirred with ice and strained into an "up" (martini) glass and garnished with an olive. I understand that originally (or so I've been told and wiki confirms this) that a martini calls for 1/5 vermouth. In my book a "dry martini" only has 1 drop of vermouth and an "extra dry" has 1 drop swirled around the glass and "whipped out". When a martini is ordered though, I found it unavoidable to ask "gin or vodka?" because well over half (probably 70%+) want vodka. Most seemed oblivious that a martini was made with anything other than vodka

As far as the shaved ice goes you are essentially getting to the core of what makes a "good" martini. The object is to chill the liquor as cold as you can without diluting it with water from the ice. Essentially, if you have an up glass and a bottle in the freezer all you have to do is add 1-6 drops of vermouth and your garnish (olive) and you have the "perfect martini". The shaved ice comes from shaking a martini, which also seems to be the "standard" now (as opposed to stirring a martini as a purist would). A sign of a "good" shaken martini is little shards of ice floating in the top of the cocktail after it has been poured through a strainer. I was told, and find it true, that being a bartender is more about showmanship than anything else. My recipe for the "perfect martini" was as follows: 1) Add ice to an up glass and fill it with soda water. 2) Put my finger over the Vermouth pourer and carefully add 6 drops to the mixing tumbler. 3) Add a 2 count (2 oz) of alcohol to the mixing tumbler. 4) Add 5-6 cubes of ice to the tumbler and shake like hell for about 5 seconds, rest 2 seconds and shake like hell for another 5 seconds all while pouring the ice/water out of your glass and "whipping" the excess droplets onto the ground. 5) Strain the cocktail into the glass so that it comes nearly level with the rim and (this is what will really impress the customer) shake twice to get every last drop into the glass. 6) Set the martini in front of the customer and add your olive, which should push the martini just over the rim of the glass without any of it "bursting the bubble" and dribbling out. At this point the customer should have to lean over and sip the drink before picking it up

But yeah, all the appletinis, chocolatinis, etc. are just complete bastardizations of what is basically chilled vodka.
You must use very small cocktail glasses indeed if 2oz spirit plus about .4oz water fills it right to the brim. I am mainly saddened that they are shaken as a matter of course now. I could care less about 'bruising' the gin, but the clarity of a well-stirred drink is a beautiful thing. As for the appletinis, et all, I agree they are bastardizations, but not of the vodka martini, but of the concept of the cocktail -- after all, these days its not 'cocktail bars' but 'martini bars' (he says, while spitting out the words). As for affluence -- in the world of cocktails I have no care for wealth, only quality. Sadly they are so often equated to ill effect. ~ H

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I could be wrong, but what makes a martini "perfect," is using both sweet and dry vermouth. Also, a martini needs a dash of bitters, usually orange.

Yes, I believe you are correct, although the dash of bitters would be the most debatable of all points martini. It was only brought up by a customer two or three times.

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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You must use very small cocktail glasses indeed if 2oz spirit plus about .4oz water fills it right to the brim.

I am mainly saddened that they are shaken as a matter of course now. I could care less about 'bruising' the gin, but the clarity of a well-stirred drink is a beautiful thing.

As for the appletinis, et all, I agree they are bastardizations, but not of the vodka martini, but of the concept of the cocktail -- after all, these days its not 'cocktail bars' but 'martini bars' (he says, while spitting out the words).

As for affluence -- in the world of cocktails I have no care for wealth, only quality. Sadly they are so often equated to ill effect.

~ H

I wholeheartedly agree and yes, they were tiny glasses...now that I think about it I might have done 2 1/2 oz, but I forget. What astounded me more than anything was that most of these people just assumed it would be a shaken VODKA martini (or so it seemed). And these were people paying $2500-$25000 a week to ride on the "Legendary" Delta Queen. Most were very accomplished and well-traveled and well into their 60's and 70's. Regardless, it was a great experience for me to serve and get to know some of them.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I could be wrong, but what makes a martini "perfect," is using both sweet and dry vermouth. Also, a martini needs a dash of bitters, usually orange.
Really? Is that a type of martini i.e The Perfect Martini or the most accurate reproduction of the martini drink? You're not supposed to shake the clear alcohols because it clouds them, right?