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low bar squats

post #1 of 81
9/7/09 at 7:03pm
Thread Starter 
I'm missing something, right? I've read Rippetoe and all that but for the life of me I can't figure out how these low-bar squats are supposed to work. Either:

1. I have the flexibility of a 75-year-old man,
2. I'm built very funny, or
3. these squats are best performed with chest parallel to the floor.

Seriously-- no matter how I contort my shoulders and chest, there's no little shelf back there for the bar. And the recommended thumbless grip? Seriously? If I put any weight on the bar back there, I lose it! I don't know how I've escaped injury.

So if I'm not missing anything (maybe I just suck), how important are these low bar squats?
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post #2 of 81
9/7/09 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdobalina View Post
So if I'm not missing anything (maybe I just suck), how important are these low bar squats?

They aren't. Rippetoe's version of squats is strange. He's in his own world sometimes.
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post #3 of 81
9/7/09 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdobalina View Post
I'm missing something, right? I've read Rippetoe and all that but for the life of me I can't figure out how these low-bar squats are supposed to work. Either:

1. I have the flexibility of a 75-year-old man,
2. I'm built very funny, or
3. these squats are best performed with chest parallel to the floor.

Seriously-- no matter how I contort my shoulders and chest, there's no little shelf back there for the bar. And the recommended thumbless grip? Seriously? If I put any weight on the bar back there, I lose it! I don't know how I've escaped injury.

So if I'm not missing anything (maybe I just suck), how important are these low bar squats?

have you even read the book (Starting Strength)?? apparently not, which makes me wonder why i'm even responding to your post rather than just recommending the book and staying quiet. to attempt to low bar squat without understanding what's correct form and setup is a futile journey.

squats - according to just about anyone that lifts seriously and has a clue - are probably the single best weightlifting exercise that there is. tremendous gains in hamstrings, quads, ass, and rest of PC and an incredible CNS exercise.

as far as everything else you wrote about flexibility and thumbless grip and what not, read SS. there is even a SS dvd if you're too lazy. do some mobility work everyday for hip/hamstring flexibility so that you'll be more flexible for the squats.

you are not a special unique snowflake. everyone who can squat a decent weight has had to work their tail off. it's a psychologically and physically demanding exercise. that's why you should buy and read Rippetoe's book.
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post #4 of 81
9/7/09 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Rippetoe's version of squats is strange.

WTF?

low bar squat is used by some of the strongest powerlifters in the world. high bar is fine and obviously the way to go for Oly lifts but at some point you're not going to be able to move as much weight as you would with a low bar squat. to say that Rippetoe's version is strange is just plain retarded. the low bar squat is the norm for most powerlifters.
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post #5 of 81
9/7/09 at 8:05pm
I would get to a place where something works, high or low, and proceed to slowly increase the weight.

After a few weeks, your flexibility will improve, your shoulders will be shaped differently, and changes in weight will change bar placement due to center of gravity, etc. This has been my experience as a skinny, all bones guy going from an empty bar to a 145 lb squat.

Just do your best, practice from in your off days, watch vids and read in spare time. You'll get it.
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post #6 of 81
9/7/09 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post
WTF?

low bar squat is used by some of the strongest powerlifters in the world. high bar is fine and obviously the way to go for Oly lifts but at some point you're not going to be able to move as much weight as you would with a low bar squat. to say that Rippetoe's version is strange is just plain retarded. the low bar squat is the norm for most powerlifters.

I'm talking about his form, not bar placement. Powerlifters do not squat like Rippetoe who has some sort of amalgamation of Olympic high-bar squats and powerlifting-style bar placement. I'd say they're more like Olympic squats than anything else, but he places the bar lower which is a stronger hip joint angle. Squatting with the same form with a higher bar makes the lift more difficult.

If you think the only two differences in squat form are "low" or "high" bar placements you have a lot to learn about anthropometry and physics.
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post #7 of 81
9/7/09 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post
it's a psychologically and physically demanding exercise. .
lol It's lifting weights on a bar.
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post #8 of 81
9/7/09 at 8:29pm
Low bar squats are great. It works the lower quads much better then regular squats. Try putting a 2x4 or something on the floor and let your heels sit on the wood with your toes on the ground. This emphasizes the lower quads even more. It is an awkward movement but I don't understand why your having so much trouble. edit* I'm an idiot. I'm thinking of hack squats.
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post #9 of 81
9/7/09 at 9:08pm
You're saying the bar is actually sliding off? I dont think Ive ever seen such a thing, and cant see how it's possible unless you're somehow able to hyper-extend/rotate your shoulders.
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post #10 of 81
9/7/09 at 10:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post
have you even read the book (Starting Strength)?? apparently not, which makes me wonder why i'm even responding to your post rather than just recommending the book and staying quiet. to attempt to low bar squat without understanding what's correct form and setup is a futile journey. squats - according to just about anyone that lifts seriously and has a clue - are probably the single best weightlifting exercise that there is. tremendous gains in hamstrings, quads, ass, and rest of PC and an incredible CNS exercise. as far as everything else you wrote about flexibility and thumbless grip and what not, read SS. there is even a SS dvd if you're too lazy. do some mobility work everyday for hip/hamstring flexibility so that you'll be more flexible for the squats. you are not a special unique snowflake. everyone who can squat a decent weight has had to work their tail off. it's a psychologically and physically demanding exercise. that's why you should buy and read Rippetoe's book.
Oh, FFS! "apparently not"-- smarmy little b*stard, you are. I have a copy of the book right here. And I know what squats are and why they're important. I could have been more specific but if you'll re-read my comments you'll see that I am asking specifically about low bar squats, which I cannot (for whatever reason) do. The thumbless grip is lifted right out of SS-- Figure 2-19 to be exact. My hips and hamstrings are plenty flexible; I can high-bar squat deeper than parallel. What I can't do is even set up a low-bar squat, suggesting that my back/shoulder flexibility is a problem, or that my physiology is off. I'd like to understand why that is. Which is why I posted the thread.
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post #11 of 81
9/7/09 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post
lol

It's lifting weights on a bar.

You have never done 20 rep squats. I would bet the farm on it.
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post #12 of 81
9/7/09 at 10:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennglock View Post
You're saying the bar is actually sliding off? I dont think Ive ever seen such a thing, and cant see how it's possible unless you're somehow able to hyper-extend/rotate your shoulders.

Precisely.

It falls because there's nothing to hold it up. My grip is weak in that position, my thumb isn't supporting the bar, and it slips down to about wrist level. Then I freak out; I bet it's pretty scary with weight on the bar.
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post #13 of 81
9/7/09 at 10:52pm
Are you using as narrow a grip as you can? Focusing on keeping the wrists straight and the elbows back?
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post #14 of 81
9/7/09 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg View Post
Are you using as narrow a grip as you can? Focusing on keeping the wrists straight and the elbows back?
This. Use a narrow grip and pull your elbows back as much as you can without rounding your back. The bar shouldn't slip in that position, but your torso will probably lean forward a bit more then you're used to. Focus on pushing with your heels etc and it should be fine.
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post #15 of 81
9/7/09 at 11:22pm
+2 on the elbows and grip.

Also make sure your rack is set plenty low- somewhere between your collar bone and nipples.
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