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I knew there was a catch - Page 2

post #16 of 35
I agree. You made the right decision.
post #17 of 35
I used to have post papers to a website that would let te professor know how much of my paper was copied. As long as you had your sources sited you were fine. However, there were a lot of students that founf out that being honest and citing all your sources is the right thing to do.
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by meaculpa
Chaos theory aside, it's humbling to think that you could have such a profound impact on someone's life.

"With great power comes great responsibility" - Peter Parker, Spiderman

(See, I learned how to reference)
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by denning
"With great power comes great responsibility" - Peter Parker, Spiderman

(See, I learned how to reference)

Actually, the line originated with Peter's Uncle Ben.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by denning
Brevior saltare cum deformibus mulieribus est vita

Does this have a source that I can cite?

Here's the Japanese:

醜い女性と踊るには、命があまりにも短い。
(Minikui josei to odoru niwa, inochi ga amari nimo mijikai.)
post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by meaculpa
globetrotter, that's what I'm trying to work out. I guess it's probably best to give the student another chance, but I don't know if I would be overstepping the bounds of my vocation if I were to do that. What a pain in the ass. I need to join the army. Probably less of this crap there, no?
This is my philosophy after seven years of college teaching. The younger you are the more likely I am to cut you slack. Everyone needs to be taught how to properly cite things. Even when it is blatant cut-and-paste action, I can give the paper back and suggest that citation could be used, write in your own words, etc. However, if they are a senior and do that, it is an automatic failure on the assingment. Automatic. For a second offense they need to go to the Honor Board and have a formal hearing to receive punishment. Since you are a TA you should take them to the Prof I think. I completely disagree with theidea that you are not destroying someone's academic career. You take measured steps to make sure they understand what they did wrong and what is and is not acceptable. When they continue to break the rules, then you must enforce the rules. Otherwise you are not upholding point of education. As for the Chinese students, that was rampant at Virginia Tech from what I heard (complete rumor, for all I know). The general feeling was that they shouldn't receive the punishment because of the consequences. But then they shouldn't have committed the crime. American students were expelled with no bad feelings. Having a transcript say that you were expelled for academic violation of the honor code kills you no matter who you are or where you're from. I forgot: use Turnitin.com. You get three free tries if your Uni isn't subscribed to it. It is a great tool both for catching cheaters and for teaching students what is and is not okay. bob
post #22 of 35
Meaculpa, more interesting than plagiarism, and I'm sure Mr. Dawnson will frown, but do you ever get cute girls flirting with you b/c you're their TA? Do you bite? :P

I actually picked-up one of mine, although she made me wait until the end of term.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawson808
I forgot: use Turnitin.com. You get three free tries if your Uni isn't subscribed to it. It is a great tool both for catching cheaters and for teaching students what is and is not okay.


bob

Our campus paper did an article on Turnitin and discussed why it wasn't used by any our of faculty or admins. Is it true that every paper submitted for inspection is required to be added to its central database, because I always submit my work with the understanding that it's just between myself and my TA (unless permission is asked should said TA want to show it to the professor, use it as an example to the class, etc, which has always been the case) and find it a pretty dishonest practice to publicize student work without permission, especially when doing so out of an immediate and unreasonable presumption of dishonesty. So did most of the professors and admins interviewed, which was why it was not used.

Generally the more blatant and malicious attempts at plagiarism are pretty easy to detect (I don't TA, but I participate in an academic extracurricular activity that requires a substantial amount of writing, and I do edit a lot of people's work), as the phrasing usually isn't cleaned up or is structured so as to suggest it was cribbed from somewhere. Someone who is going to put in the effort to make copied work seem original will more likely than not realize the inefficiency of the endeavor and do his own work.
post #24 of 35
I used to have my students handwrite everything, 10 pages a week for 15 weeks.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by aybojs
Our campus paper did an article on Turnitin and discussed why it wasn't used by any our of faculty or admins. Is it true that every paper submitted for inspection is required to be added to its central database, because I always submit my work with the understanding that it's just between myself and my TA (unless permission is asked should said TA want to show it to the professor, use it as an example to the class, etc, which has always been the case) and find it a pretty dishonest practice to publicize student work without permission, especially when doing so out of an immediate and unreasonable presumption of dishonesty. So did most of the professors and admins interviewed, which was why it was not used.

I THINK that the way it works is, your school can choose to or not put those papers in the main database. But I could be wrong. Of course, the more in the database, the better it works. We actually have to give notice in our syllabus that we will use Turnitin.com (or may use it) for legal reasons because of this. I'm honestly not sure why. The papers are anonymous when they are in the database. Another student could not, for instance, find your paper or find the result of the scan or anything in any way.

A Prof handing out your paper to the class without your permission is a different issue (and undoubtedly a violation of FERPA).

I find it useful for three reasons. It catches the rare instance of plagiarism. It also catches instances that are not plagiarism but where I student simply needs to learn to paraphrase better or use a citation when needed. Third, when students give me drafts and revisions, it will check the new one against the database which includes the draft. If no changes have been made, it will come up as a 100% match. So I can catch those and not read them.


As for:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQGeek
but do you ever get cute girls flirting with you b/c you're their TA? Do you bite? :P

I actually picked-up one of mine, although she made me wait until the end of term.

I have been hit on by a student and ran screaming from it. Three reasons. The first was that she was repulsive. The second is that it is a quick way to get fired. Fear the day a student files a harrasment charge against you. Third, it's totally unethical to have a relationship with someone you have power over like that. I find such interaction with your students repulsive. That's my very frank response. And I've had colleagues who married their students (two times in one case; a dean of the faculty from what I heard in another).

My rule was originally that I will never get involved with a current or potentially future student. Former (graduated) student I would have allowed. Now I'm just too old (and permanently involved) so wouldn't even consider an alumna.

On a funny note, the only time I've ever suspected a student of having a crush on me it turned out she was literally days away from getting married.


bob
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawson808
I THINK that the way it works is, your school can choose to or not put those papers in the main database. But I could be wrong. Of course, the more in the database, the better it works. We actually have to give notice in our syllabus that we will use Turnitin.com (or may use it) for legal reasons because of this. I'm honestly not sure why. The papers are anonymous when they are in the database. Another student could not, for instance, find your paper or find the result of the scan or anything in any way.

A Prof handing out your paper to the class without your permission is a different issue (and undoubtedly a violation of FERPA).

I find it useful for three reasons. It catches the rare instance of plagiarism. It also catches instances that are not plagiarism but where I student simply needs to learn to paraphrase better or use a citation when needed. Third, when students give me drafts and revisions, it will check the new one against the database which includes the draft. If no changes have been made, it will come up as a 100% match. So I can catch those and not read them.


As for:


I have been hit on by a student and ran screaming from it. Three reasons. The first was that she was repulsive. The second is that it is a quick way to get fired. Fear the day a student files a harrasment charge against you. Third, it's totally unethical to have a relationship with someone you have power over like that. I find such interaction with your students repulsive. That's my very frank response. And I've had colleagues who married their students (two times in one case; a dean of the faculty from what I heard in another).

My rule was originally that I will never get involved with a current or potentially future student. Former (graduated) student I would have allowed. Now I'm just too old (and permanently involved) so wouldn't even consider an alumna.

On a funny note, the only time I've ever suspected a student of having a crush on me it turned out she was literally days away from getting married.


bob

I totally agree with you for faculty, but Meaculpa's just a TA and is a lot closer in age to the students. TAs often work in pairs and as long as he's not correcting the girls work, I personally wouldn't have a huge problem with it.

When I asked out my TA I immediately broached the conflict of interest issue and she decided on her own that it was perhaps not the best idea. I played by her rules all term and asked her out again (with more success) once it was over.
post #27 of 35
A note about China and plagerism:

As far as I know, the Chinese don't understand the concept. As an ex-(as of two weeks ago--Hurrah!) English teacher in Shenzhen, I saw first hand students copy each other's work right in front of me. I was told by my colleagues that this is acceptable behavior. It seemeed to me that original ideas were not encouraged.

So *this* is why we get pirated movies and "designer" garb from China!

Sara
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
I totally agree with you for faculty, but Meaculpa's just a TA and is a lot closer in age to the students. TAs often work in pairs and as long as he's not correcting the girls work, I personally wouldn't have a huge problem with it.

But a TA is in the same position of power. It is always that bad situation that has to be considered. What happens if she turns down his advance? The TA is in a position to carry out a form of revenge. Or to just exert pressur in order to get the date in the first place. That's no different than the prof.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GQgeek
When I asked out my TA I immediately broached the conflict of interest issue and she decided on her own that it was perhaps not the best idea. I played by her rules all term and asked her out again (with more success) once it was over.

Oh, you asked out your TA. That should go under that thread of "things that make you feel like a man." Nice work. I never had a TA I would have asked out.

bob
post #29 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawson808
This is my philosophy after seven years of college teaching. The younger you are the more likely I am to cut you slack. Everyone needs to be taught how to properly cite things. Even when it is blatant cut-and-paste action, I can give the paper back and suggest that citation could be used, write in your own words, etc. However, if they are a senior and do that, it is an automatic failure on the assingment. Automatic. For a second offense they need to go to the Honor Board and have a formal hearing to receive punishment.

Yeah, that's what I figured. I think it's probably good that I confronted them and explained just how serious this whole scenario was. They'll definitely never make the same mistake again.


GQ, actually, there were some girls making pretty eyes at me since the term began. One of them actually gave me a gift at the end of the semester (a *really* nice picture frame), which I definitely didn't expect. I won't be making any advances because I'm currently involved with someone, and I'm madly in love enough to not even think about putting that in jeopardy.

What's harder isn't the students, but my fellow TAs, though. There are four that I would date in a second. Two of them are positively stunning in every way. One of them was my TA when I took the course, and needless to say, had my circumstances been slightly different, I would've asked her out in a second. There was some significant flirting, though, and she actually encouraged me to become a TA for the course.

Sara, that explains it all!
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawson808
But a TA is in the same position of power. It is always that bad situation that has to be considered. What happens if she turns down his advance? The TA is in a position to carry out a form of revenge. Or to just exert pressur in order to get the date in the first place. That's no different than the prof.

Yeah, that would be my main problem. After the semester's over, I suppose it's free game, but during is a different story. Accepting gifts, as I mentioned in the previous entry is another thing, too. I asked the other TAs about this and they said it was alright as long as it wasn't lined with 20s. I could tell they were bitter, though, haha.
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