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Four-door Sedan: Which would you choose? - Page 6

post #76 of 117
4/18/06 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjpj83
I want an Allroad, but they aren't making them anymore. Supid SUVs..

Oh, no?

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...ro-concept.htm

Just you wait...

Jon.
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post #77 of 117
4/18/06 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGladwell
Given that both cars offer far more performance than anyone who doesn't hold and maintain an FIA Superlicense could ever realistically exploit on a huge racetrack let alone on real world roads, who the fuck cares which one is "quicker"?

This ridiculous masturbation over irrelevant differences on spec sheets is the bulk of the reason why moderns suck so hard. Dumb people will buy the stupid things because they are fast, without bothering to learn if they're any good.

Are you arguing with me for the principle of just arguing or what?

You are arguing drivers feel and I compared you to Clarkson, regarding two cars in which he discussed this very issue. Did you not get my comparison...?

And again, you keep on saying speed isn't fun (and frankly I have no idea what kind of 25 mph world you're living in), but it is. And so is cornering, and frankly, yes awesome drivers feel would be nice. BUT I rather have a modern M3 that goes twice as fast, in both corners and straights as a 2000 or a 2002, and has modern conveniences AND has modern crash equipment, because frankly I would like to live after I crash.

I mean, sure we could go out and build a car a-la Auto Union Silver Arrow with all the drivers feel you could possibly have...and then you could die like Bernd Rosemeyer once your car crash, because it will lack crash detection / equipment.

Seriously, your argument is farcical, and if you really dislike modern cars so much, don't buy them. There are plenty of older cars that you seem to enjoy.

Jon.
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post #78 of 117
4/18/06 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
Are you arguing with me for the principle of just arguing or what?

You are arguing drivers feel and I compared you to Clarkson, regarding two cars in which he discussed this very issue. Did you not get my comparison...?

And again, you keep on saying speed isn't fun (and frankly I have no idea what kind of 25 mph world you're living in), but it is. And so is cornering, and frankly, yes awesome drivers feel would be nice. BUT I rather have a modern M3 that goes twice as fast, in both corners and straights as a 2000 or a 2002, and has modern conveniences AND has modern crash equipment, because frankly I would like to live after I crash.

I mean, sure we could go out and build a car a-la Auto Union Silver Arrow with all the drivers feel you could possibly have...and then you could die like Bernd Rosemeyer once your car crash, because it will lack crash detection / equipment.

Seriously, your argument is farcical, and if you really dislike modern cars so much, don't buy them. There are plenty of older cars that you seem to enjoy.

Jon.


gladwell just seems to have a quirkier taste than your average driver...
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post #79 of 117
4/18/06 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGladwell
This ridiculous masturbation over irrelevant differences on spec sheets is the bulk of the reason why moderns suck so hard. Dumb people will buy the stupid things because they are fast, without bothering to learn if they're any good.

Looks, ergonomics and safety all play an issue and i'm still not sure where you're getting at by saying all 'moderns' suck. Or are you just blasting the entire spectrum of modern cars just for the sake of it? Seriously, you have a unique taste in vehicles, we all get it, but dismissing cars left and right isn't adding to the conversation so leave it be.
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post #80 of 117
4/18/06 at 8:43pm
oh, and that 'Latigo' was designed by henrik fisker, who's responsible for designing the BMW Z8 and heading some of Aston Martins designs. I've met him once here at pasadena and he's quite a designer.
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post #81 of 117
4/18/06 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
Honestly now, I love the BMW 2000 and 2002 as much as anybody, but if I ever buy one it will be garaged and driven on sunny Sunday afternoons and to car meets.

My brother has a '97 M3 and I imagine will be buying another 2002 --knowing him, possibly any second. The M3 is an amazing car and an absolute blast to drive.

For my tastes and sensibilities, however, I'd just as soon have that annoying feel of the road eliminated in a 4-door sedan. I'm willing to give up certain aspects of the driving experience in a certain type of car used for a specific purpose in order to gain the amenities.

The Maserati Quattroporte Sport GT is still my favorite.
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post #82 of 117
4/18/06 at 11:21pm
I feel the Jaguar XK120 is a fine daily driver:

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post #83 of 117
4/18/06 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
I feel the Jaguar XK120 is a fine daily driver:


I stayed up veeeeeeery late. Now it's almost six a.m. here in Minsk. Am I tired simply too tired to notice? Where are the other two doors that thread title proposes?! Other than that, Label King, I enjoy XK 120s in general although I don't have much behind-the-wheel time.

The Jaguar in the image is a little over-restored for my taste. The badge bar, the aftermarket Plexiglas wind-wings, and those particular wire wheels are slightly incongruous. The wire wheels appear to be neither the original Dunlop nor the budget-be-damned Borrani wire wheels that some fellows actually purchased for their cars.

I would love to see the car with the streamlining full rear wheel-arch spats in place.
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post #84 of 117
4/18/06 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Canvas
I stayed up veeeeeeery late. Now it’s almost six a.m. here in Minsk. Am I tired simply too tired to notice? Where are the other two doors that thread title proposes?! Other than that, Label King, I enjoy XK 120s in general although I don't have much behind-the-wheel time. The Jaguar in the image is a little over-restored for my taste. The badge bar, the aftermarket Plexiglas wind-wings, and those particular wire wheels are slightly incongruous. The wire wheels appear to be neither the original Dunlop nor the budget-be-damned Borrani wire wheels that some fellows actually purchased for their cars. I would love to see the car with the streamlining full rear wheel-arch spats in place. ______________________________________
Yes, it probably is one of those show cars with some liberties on the owner's part. Some people tend to always associate those wire wheels with vintage English roadsters. Here is an original photo: Do you drive a vintage auto?
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post #85 of 117
4/19/06 at 2:10am
Thread Starter 
It's clearly time for a separate classic car thread.
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post #86 of 117
4/19/06 at 2:21am
XK140 DHC for me please
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post #87 of 117
4/19/06 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
Yes, it probably is one of those show cars with some liberties on the owner's part. Some people tend to always associate those wire wheels with vintage English roadsters.

Here is an original photo:



Do you drive a vintage auto?

Ah! That b&w image is the XK-120 in my mind's eye. The wheel arch spats and the absence of visual extras really make the lines much sleeker. It's really a lovely car. Sacrilege or not, I can see stolen lines from some of the various coach-built Delahayes, Talbot-Lagos, and Bugattis in those XK-120s.

By definition, we don't own any vintage cars (1920-1930). However, we are fortunate enough to own a number of unusual cars.

At home in California, some of our fun road cars are three 1960s Lotus cars (Elite, Cortina, and Europa) and a 1973 Lotus Elan.

In Cargese we have a 1997 Lotus Elise, 1983 Renault R5 Turbo 2, and a 2003 Citroen C5 V6 four-door sedan.

In Minsk we have a 1998 Mercedes Benz E240 four-door sedan. It blends in and no one looks twice. That's exactly the way we want it to be here.

At home in California, our daily drivers are a 2004 Ford Escape SUV and a 2000 BMW M5 four-door sedan. It's all so obsessive, but such great fun! The cars represent more than thirty years of inability to resist temptation.

Arriving at Nantucket Red's original query, although we own four-door sedans, they're never my first choice. But, to conclude my remarks about his four-door sedan theme for this post, I still own a 1949 Buick Roadmaster four-door sedan that was purchased new by my paternal grandfather. There are 54,000 original miles on the Buick.
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post #88 of 117
4/19/06 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjpj83
XK140 DHC for me please

XK 140 Roadster for me, with the "˜C' engine.

Jon.
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post #89 of 117
4/19/06 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
Honestly now, I love the BMW 2000 and 2002 as much as anybody, but if I ever buy one it will be garaged and driven on sunny Sunday afternoons and to car meets.

Why? They're not worth very much and not very attractive, so the only thing they have going for them is being great to drive. (Even there, BMW is beaten out IMO by the prettier Alfa GTV, though soft parts for the Bimmers are easier to come by.) The only thing you have to worry about with a 2000, I think, is rust. An uncle of mine had one as his daily driver for almost 40 years, but it gave up the ghost to cancer at the end of the last decade. After that he went through I think six masstige-brand (BMW, Audi, Merc, etc.) small sedans before finally finding something that was half the car the 2000 was (2002 Infiniti G20).
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post #90 of 117
4/20/06 at 3:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGladwell
Why? They're not worth very much and not very attractive, so the only thing they have going for them is being great to drive. (Even there, BMW is beaten out IMO by the prettier Alfa GTV, though soft parts for the Bimmers are easier to come by.) The only thing you have to worry about with a 2000, I think, is rust. An uncle of mine had one as his daily driver for almost 40 years, but it gave up the ghost to cancer at the end of the last decade. After that he went through I think six masstige-brand (BMW, Audi, Merc, etc.) small sedans before finally finding something that was half the car the 2000 was (2002 Infiniti G20).

Why? Because, as you mentioned, rust is your worst enemy with these cars (therefore, keep garaged). Also, they have a cult following and I have connections to enthusiasts, which means I could go to race events and other gatherings. So, not only would they be fun to drive, they'd be a focal point of social activity. That is, if I were ever to buy one.

Also, for the same reasons you mentioned, I would not want one as a daily driver. If I were to choose a BMW as a daily driver, I'd want a 650 convertible or, for a 4-door sedan, an M5. Go ahead, rant about Bangle's ugly designs. I don't think they're so horrible and happen to like these two in particluar. Ugliness is in the eye of the beholder.
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