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Random fashion thoughts - Page 6631  

post #99451 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

So it's the fact that they're copying? So the dissatisfaction comes from the same place as the philippics against "homage" watches and the like? I can understand that.

Even watches that aren't homage watches but have derivative design are looked down upon pretty heavily... IE Glashutte Original Panomatic (because of the A Lange Sohne model it heavily borrows from).
Edited by cyc wid it - 9/8/14 at 11:19am
post #99452 of 109053
Discounting philosophical concerns, for fast fashion in particular, I've never had any desire to wear any of the Zara (or HM) pieces I've ever felt. They feel disgusting, they're poorly made, and they usually look terrible. There's also the whole abuse-of-human-rights thing, which isn't exclusive to fast fashion, but has become sort of associated with it.
post #99453 of 109053
Does anyone know of Uniqlo manufactures it's clothing ethically?
post #99454 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louys View Post

Does anyone know of Uniqlo manufactures it's clothing ethically?

I emailed them about that a while back:
Quote:
Thank you for your email.

When producing UNIQLO products, we closely work with approximately 70 overseas factories, which we designate as our Production Partners (Partners). Our Code of Conduct for Production Partners (COC, hereafter) requires that our Partners comply with COC and keep excellent standards in the working environment. We regularly monitor employees working conditions at our Partner factories, and in the event during monitoring, problems arise, we make concentrated efforts to resolve the problems together with the management of the factories.

We strictly prohibit use of child labor in our COC. In accordance with the COC, our Partners must commit to employing workers who meet the minimum legal age.

We regularly conduct factory monitoring, weighing most heavily on child labor and forced labor in our evaluation criteria. In the event that child labor is found in the monitoring, we require that the factory take a corrective action immediately. Appropriate and reliable methods are established in the factory to prevent the practice of child labor. Follow-up monitoring is then conducted to confirm improvement. If Partners with serious violations of the COC do not show any improvement even after a second round of follow-up monitoring, we will re-negotiate the terms of our relationship.

Our COC states that Partners shall maintain wages in compliance with all applicable laws and regulations. Also, we monitor Partners on a regular basis if they are in compliance with the COC, and in the event they do not meet the requirement, we require them to take corrective actions.

You will find additional details in our CSR report at http://www.fastretailing.com/eng/csr/vision/pdf/csr2008_e_12.pdf

For inquiries and any other concerns please do not hesitate to call Customer Center at 1-855-4UNIQLO(1-855-486-4756) or email wecare@mail.uniqlo-usa.com.

Sincerely,

Michaelene 813
UNIQLO USA CUSTOMER CENTER

tl;dr - They're not into slavery or child labor, but it's fair to assume that wages aren't necessarily awesome across the board.

FWIW, I reached out to Zara with a similar question and never heard back.
post #99455 of 109053

Does anyone think that a "Production Partner" that uses children workers would have any ethical problems signing a document where they "commit" not to use child labor?     Did Mango, Joe Fresh, Benetton, etc... have some sort of fluff code of conduct agreement with the Rana Plaza factories?

post #99456 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Just saw the (second to last) YSL biopic. So damn awful. I wish it weren't so.

Trailer:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

That's the 'official' Saint Laurent biopic approved by Pierre Bergé (kinda sets the tone), made on autopilot and flatlining from beginning to end. It's about as exciting as a filmed wikipedia entry.

It's unfortunate timing that that insipid piece of filmmaking was released shortly before the other (unofficial) biopic by Bertrand Bonello (one of the most interesting French director working today) which, while not without its flaws, is an infinitely superior film and infinitely more worthy of your time.

Not sure it's been released in the US yet though.



post #99457 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post


This is an honest question because I sometimes notice myself feeling the same way...why would you hate to admit that Zara has some decent stuff? Would we rather that all the cool stuff come from brands that are inaccessible to the general public due either to its off-putting price or lack of publicity? Because that then justifies the inordinate amount of time, money, and energy we spend in acquiring jawnz? Because if you can buy cool shit at Zara for $50 then wtf are we even doing? I think these are the reasons that I have a sinking feeling every time I see some sweater retailing for $20 at a mass market retailer that I actually kind of like, but interested in hearing how others feel about it.

 

This happens a lot here...people admit they may possibly, potentially, reluctantly, like some mall brand "ripoff" item. So, post it here first, in an apologetic tone, to gage the masses reaction. 

 

I think what happens, though, is if you've invested any time and energy (and by default, money) into this forum, you'd like to think you've "worked harder" for your fashion insights, that somehow you've paid for a membership of exclusivity. You shop at J.Crew? That's too easy...only $2K baller leathers from here on out!

 

As a corollary, there was an article I came across years ago about how the digital download music industry was scoffed at by "old school" music collectors. Here were these people, who'd spent the entire lives amassing these record collections, combing through bins at record stores, only to now be outdone by some kid with 10,000 songs on his ipod. They admitted that new collectors couldn't possibly appreciate music on the same level as them, because it wasn't such an intrinsic part of their life. 

 

Whether we admit it or not, accessiblity/ exclusivity colors our perceptions of a brands' value and our willingness to make trade-offs. 

post #99458 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipang View Post

That's the 'official' Saint Laurent biopic approved by Pierre Bergé (kinda sets the tone), made on autopilot and flatlining from beginning to end. It's about as exciting as a filmed wikipedia entry.

It's unfortunate timing that that insipid piece of filmmaking was released shortly before the other (unofficial) biopic by Bertrand Bonello (one of the most interesting French director working today) which, while not without its flaws, is an infinitely superior film and infinitely more worthy of your time.

Not sure it's been released in the US yet though.

Yea, I was searching around for that online, but couldn't find a place where I could watch it (free or not).

Have you seen L’amour fou? Trailer:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Was going to watch that this week. A friend reviewed it here:

http://asuitablewardrobe.blogspot.com/2014/07/rjs-alternative-style-icons-pierre-berge.html
post #99459 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgaith77 View Post

As a corollary, there was an article I came across years ago about how the digital download music industry was scoffed at by "old school" music collectors. Here were these people, who'd spent the entire lives amassing these record collections, combing through bins at record stores, only to now be outdone by some kid with 10,000 songs on his ipod. They admitted that new collectors couldn't possibly appreciate music on the same level as them, because it wasn't such an intrinsic part of their life. 

I will rightly be judged as an asshole for admitting this, but when I was in high school in the '90s, I spent a great deal of my time going to music stores to dig for obscure, just-released music tapes and vinyl. Those were basically the only way I could be cool in high school. Granted, I was genuinely into the music -- but it was also a way to feel like you had something as a teenager when you weren't particularly skilled, good looking, or athletic.

There were many times when I was sitting in the quad with friends, and people would come up to us to ask what we were listening to. We'd be assholes and say some popular band that obviously wasn't the truth. Finding good b-sides and white labels at that time was like finding gold. Like knowing about something that nobody else could be cool enough to know about.

I can't even imagine what it would be like back then, if kids those days had cell phones that you could hold up to capture music, and some computer would tell you exactly where on YouTube or iTunes you could check out that track. My life would have been ruined.
post #99460 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I will rightly be judged as an asshole for admitting this,

post #99461 of 109053

I dunno man, you listen to stuff that's underground enough, Shazam and YouTube won't be able to help you out.

 

Just tested with this which was a favourite back in my early-mid teens. Only 2 tracks from the album on YT, and Shazam doesn't find anything.

post #99462 of 109053

A lot of this leads to the question of "why do we like what we like?" Because the reason a Styleforum reader (or SZ reader or reddit reader, whatever) buys a Rick Owens tshirt (sub literally any SF/tumblr #grail for RO tshirt) is not necessarily the same reason an average Zara shopper is going to buy a tshirt done in a similar style.

  • Customer A has been down with Rick since '02, lives in a brutalist concrete bunker minimally decorated except for exotic fur rugs, always checks out the new collection, and has stuff on preorder every season.
  • Customer B just showed up at NYU and wants something to distance himself from his previous life in flyover country. He wants something edgy and just signed up for a BoA visa card and ends up with a Rick Owens t from a boutique in the meatpacking district.
  • Customer C is a whale who buys whatever his Barney's SA recommends.
  • Customer D posts in this thread a lot and jumped on a Rick t on myhabit.
  • Customer E shops primarily at the (suburban) mall, has never heard of Rick Owens, but likes the tshirt on the SA at Zara and buys it.

 

Is there something inherent in the "good design" of the Rick t that makes everyone want it/makes it worth ripping off? Which of these customers will be put off by an Allsaints/Zara/whatever trickledown? Is Customer E's taste worse than customer A's? Is their interest in the aesthetic casual and therefore worth less?

 

I'd be interested to see, especially for high profile but still niche designers, how many customers are conversant in that niche design world and how many are just like "I thought it looked good in the window so I bought it."

post #99463 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I will rightly be judged as an asshole for admitting this, but when I was in high school in the '90s, I spent a great deal of my time going to music stores to dig for obscure, just-released music tapes and vinyl. Those were basically the only way I could be cool in high school. Granted, I was genuinely into the music -- but it was also a way to feel like you had something as a teenager when you weren't particularly skilled, good looking, or athletic.

There were many times when I was sitting in the quad with friends, and people would come up to us to ask what we were listening to. We'd be assholes and say some popular band that obviously wasn't the truth. Finding good b-sides and white labels at that time was like finding gold. Like knowing about something that nobody else could be cool enough to know about.

I can't even imagine what it would be like back then, if kids those days had cell phones that you could hold up to capture music, and some computer would tell you exactly where on YouTube or iTunes you could check out that track. My life would have been ruined.

I'm not sure it has changed THAT much… all the stuff on iTunes and YouTube is just all the popular shite, not-even-music "music" so there is still the need to dig and search. Yes occasionally I'm surprised by what I find on YT and there is some cool, obscure stuff, (and I'm exaggerating a bit.. it's not all shite) but people are still the same, and lazy people listen to lazy music and don't put any time into finding it.
post #99464 of 109053
wow, such taste, very patrician
post #99465 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoreman1782 View Post
 

A lot of this leads to the question of "why do we like what we like?" Because the reason a Styleforum reader (or SZ reader or reddit reader, whatever) buys a Rick Owens tshirt (sub literally any SF/tumblr #grail for RO tshirt) is not necessarily the same reason an average Zara shopper is going to buy a tshirt done in a similar style.

  • Customer A has been down with Rick since '02, lives in a brutalist concrete bunker minimally decorated except for exotic fur rugs, always checks out the new collection, and has stuff on preorder every season.
  • Customer B just showed up at NYU and wants something to distance himself from his previous life in flyover country. He wants something edgy and just signed up for a BoA visa card and ends up with a Rick Owens t from a boutique in the meatpacking district.
  • Customer C is a whale who buys whatever his Barney's SA recommends.
  • Customer D posts in this thread a lot and jumped on a Rick t on myhabit.
  • Customer E shops primarily at the (suburban) mall, has never heard of Rick Owens, but likes the tshirt on the SA at Zara and buys it.

 

Is there something inherent in the "good design" of the Rick t that makes everyone want it/makes it worth ripping off? Which of these customers will be put off by an Allsaints/Zara/whatever trickledown? Is Customer E's taste worse than customer A's? Is their interest in the aesthetic casual and therefore worth less?

 

I'd be interested to see, especially for high profile but still niche designers, how many customers are conversant in that niche design world and how many are just like "I thought it looked good in the window so I bought it."

 

 

 

I'd be more interested in seeing how these customers view each other. 

 

Do Customers D & E view Customer A as aspirational or try hard? Customer A views everyone else as consumerist sheep? Customer C is entirely oblivious to A, B, D & E? 

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