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Random fashion thoughts - Page 6167  

post #92491 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post


Which of the following has a greater advantage in the game of life:

Person A: born in a first world country, parents both choose to be on welfare/low end jobs, stable in their home (not moving around), know native language (everyone speaks it)

Person B: born in a third wold country, parents are both hard workers but have relatively low paying jobs, pick up their entire life to immigrate to give themselves and their children a better life, end up with same or worse socioeconomic status than before, do not speak the native language, do not have a stable home

Please note that neither one of these people is in the top bracket of income, or close to it - but the next generation from each person has a chance to be.

 

The immigrants, actually:

 

Quote:
A comparison of first generation immigrants in 1970 and second generation 
immigrants in 2000 reveals that average wages increased by 5 percentage 
points relative to non-immigrant wages. Between 1940 and 1970, there was 
an increase of nearly 9 percentage points. In both cases, second generation 
immigrants continue to have higher wages than non-immigrants.
...
Wages of second generation immigrants are correlated to first generation 
immigrant wages in a similar manner to non-immigrant parents and children. 
● Based on 61 national origin groups, the correlation between first and second 
generation earnings in 1940 and 1970 is .42 for all immigrant workers 
(compared to .47 for non-immigrants)
. This means that approximately 
40 percent of the difference in relative economic status for immigrants from 
various nations passes to the second generation. 
 
 

 

I'm not saying that there's no upward mobility, or that everyone in a low wage job was forced into it (I know a lot of lazy people, too), just that a good chunk of the people stuck in those jobs could have been some middle manager making 80k if they'd had different parents.

post #92492 of 109053
KJ I agree with what you are saying. There definitely is a TON of luck and advantage that people including myself have benefited from. Heck just the lottery of birth of not being born in some war torn third world is awesome. And just having the luck to meet the right people to make connections. It is truly difficult to tease out luck from skill.

What i would like to see is that same game experiment but then match to income brackets and show how often a player would win at a game of intellect or skill given an advantage, across income brackets


Also sorry APK!

LA guy actually pmed me a pretty good reason why I should reconsider and I definitely will reflect on it....
post #92493 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

Waiters really just need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps!

Sidenote:Waiting Tables at Top-Tier Restaurants Is New Career Path for Foodies

 

I used to work at Le Cirque, New York Palace hotel in the early 2000s and as a union gig some of the servers had been there since it opened in the 70's. The old servers told me at height of popularity in 80's and early 90's they were pulling in $150k or more a year with good benefits. I took a "demotion" for one of the few mid-waiter positions, basically a runner with other responsibilities, and I was making close to $6k a month after taxes with good benefits. There were strict union shift hour limits without paying overtime on the $10/hr wage so I rarely worked more than 50 hours, unheard of in non-union gigs. Still one of the worst jobs I've ever had in "fine" dining for slew of reasons.

post #92494 of 109053
I thought these might be of interest to this crowd - they MC guys are kind of mocking the design but I think it's kinda cool.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffArmoury View Post

Hey guys,

Salva will be visiting The Armoury New York on Friday, March 7th and Saturday, March 8th to oversee fittings and take new bespoke orders. To book an appointment, email us nyc@thearmoury.com or call 646.613.7613.

Here is a rather interesting pair that he made for a friend of ours, called the "marina" trouser which is cut without a fly or pockets and made in a heavy cream flannel as opposed to the more traditional navy wool or off-white duck canvas.






If you have any questions don't hesitate to let me know.

Jeff
post #92495 of 109053
You can't say they're "cut without a fly" if you just put the fly on your hip, where it's totally useless.
post #92496 of 109053
I know that guy! He likes to discreetly take off his pants at playgrounds and sporting events. With the fly at his side, no one knows he's undoing the buttons until it's too late...
post #92497 of 109053
Fat people who accuse their doctors of "fat shaming" when their weight is brought up as a health issue confuse me.
post #92498 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LelandJ View Post

I used to work at Le Cirque, New York Palace hotel in the early 2000s and as a union gig some of the servers had been there since it opened in the 70's. The old servers told me at height of popularity in 80's and early 90's they were pulling in $150k or more a year with good benefits. I took a "demotion" for one of the few mid-waiter positions, basically a runner with other responsibilities, and I was making close to $6k a month after taxes with good benefits. There were strict union shift hour limits without paying overtime on the $10/hr wage so I rarely worked more than 50 hours, unheard of in non-union gigs. Still one of the worst jobs I've ever had in "fine" dining for slew of reasons.

i want to hear some dirty gossip about le cirque. i watched a documentary on it and it seemed like starting in the 2000s it was a total shitshow
post #92499 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

Again, ultimately all of this boils down to choice. Waiters make a choice when they choose their profession. So do fast food workers. Instead of going to school, learning a trade through apprenticeship, or finding a way to enrich themselves through an alternative avenue some people choose to work low level, dead-end jobs. Some complain about the low pay, the long hours, their terrible bosses or lack of growth. But at the heart of it all lies the reason for their past, present, and future inabilities to sustain themselves in a landscape built upon ever growing socioeconomic pressures and expectations - their choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

KJ - this chart, which I have of course seen before - and many other such facts are quite funny to me. Do you know how many people I know personally whose parents came to the United States with nothing, worked their asses off doing all kinds of low end crap, poured every penny into their children in order to give them a better life, and now those kids are doctors, lawyers, business owners, successful engineers, etc. far surpassing their parents in wealth before turning 35? It has nothing to do with being born to poor parents who never make it past the lower middle class. It has to do with choice - the parents' choice to sacrifice and scratch and claw for their children, and the children's choice to take that and make something of themselves.

Just FYI, I'm one of these kids (parents came from Vietnam in '91 with nothin, I went to a private university on an almost full ride and could've gone on any of the pre-business, med, law etc. tracks I wanted) and I grew up in a community full of kids like me. I can tell you that 90% of the kids I grew up with are in jail, dead-end jobs, dropped out of high school, or have no plans of doing anything that you mentioned. This includes family members, too. I'm the only one who "made it", and you know the biggest difference between me and those other kids? My parents moved me in with my auntie in the suburbs around middle school, so for the rest of the time I was in school I was surrounded by middle to upper class people instead of the primarily 80% low class ethnic schools I was going to.

I recognize my parents' sacrifice that they have made and the sacrifices they STILL make, and I'm gonna say that it's not just about the kid's choice to "be something", like you say. Your post really overlooks a LOT of things and then assumes even more things, and I think it's really a world you don't understand. I don't know, dude. I've worked in a lot of restaurants, I've done my share of 15 hour shifts (hi 2010 world cup), and during the times where I needed a job at a restaurant, there wasn't really a choice involved, nor was it because I made any "bad" decisions or whatever.

And it's very, very easy to say that it's just up to someone's choice to be something. That's the easiest way to explain it, when the reality is that there are lots of disadvantages (and advantages in a few ways) when you are born lower class and/or ethnic, and some of these disadvantages are much more nuanced and subtle than you would like to believe, because it really starts unraveling how shitty our society and world is. And come on, moo, I don't think you really believe that it's only up to a kid's choice to make something of themselves. That's almost insulting.
Edited by g transistor - 3/5/14 at 6:37pm
post #92500 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc wid it View Post

Fat people who accuse their doctors of "fat shaming" when their weight is brought up as a health issue confuse me.

 

Liked accidentally, fat shaming became politically incorrect generally as a public relations marketing scheme by Food & Drug businesses that facilitate and encourage illness and obesity. This way you can profit making them sick with food and more sick with drugs under the guise of medicine.

post #92501 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post


i want to hear some dirty gossip about le cirque. i watched a documentary on it and it seemed like starting in the 2000s it was a total shitshow

 

I feel dirty just thinking back on it. Didn't know there was a video on it LOL.

post #92502 of 109053
its on netflix. i forget what its called tho. it was a pretty shitty documentary about a restaurant rapidly becoming shitty
post #92503 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by g transistor View Post


Just FYI, I'm one of these kids (parents came from Vietnam in '91 with nothin, I went to a private university on an almost full ride and could've gone on any of the pre-business, med, law etc. tracks I wanted) and I grew up in a community full of kids like me. I can tell you that 90% of the kids I grew up with are in jail, dead-end jobs, dropped out of high school, or have no plans of doing anything that you mentioned. This includes family members, too. I'm the only one who "made it", and you know the biggest difference between me and those other kids? My parents moved me in with my auntie in the suburbs around middle school, so for the rest of the time I was in school I was surrounded by middle to upper class people instead of the primarily 80% low class ethnic schools I was going to.

I recognize my parents' sacrifice that they have made and the sacrifices they STILL make, and I'm gonna say that it's not just about the kid's choice to "be something", like you say. Your post really overlooks a LOT of things and then assumes even more things, and I think it's really a world you don't understand. I don't know, dude. I've worked in a lot of restaurants, I've done my share of 15 hour shifts (hi 2010 world cup), and during the times where I needed a job at a restaurant, there wasn't really a choice involved, nor was it because I made any "bad" decisions or whatever.

And it's very, very easy to say that it's just up to someone's choice to be something. That's the easiest way to explain it, when the reality is that there are lots of disadvantages (and advantages in a few ways) when you are born lower class and/or ethnic, and some of these disadvantages are much more nuanced and subtle than you would like to believe, because it really starts unraveling how shitty our society and world is. And come on, moo, I don't think you really believe that it's only up to a some kid's choice to make something of themselves. That's almost insulting.

So the other kids - the 90% - someone forced them to drop out, go to jail, or get terrible jobs? I doubt anyone held a gun to any of their heads. They made a choice to "be cool", run with a bad crowd, do drugs, skip school. Their parents probably made choices you aren't ever aware of - not helping them with homework, not sending them to after school programs to keep them off the streets. I am speaking from my personal experience, and from the experiences of all of the Russian immigrants with whom I grew up. Are there fuck ups mixed in there? Of course. One of my good friends from elementary through middle school was in and out of jail, and is now an alcoholic. Another was a meth head and is now a successful ER nurse. Most others are - literally - doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, or successful business people.

I know there are disadvantages to being born in the ghetto, and it's a tough hole out of which to climb. But I'm going to stand pat and say that if someone really, REALLY wanted to make the choice to leave their shitty life behind, give up the easy dollar, and try to break free of their conditional underachievement, then they can - if they make a choice to do so. Food stamps, welfare, drug dealing, making ends meet are crutches simply too enticing for many to simply say "enough".
post #92504 of 109053
You're absolutely right. WUSSIFICATION OF AMERICA. I assume the GOP has contacted you about becoming an idol in the upcoming election? Would be PERFECT replacement for Joe 6-Pack. Hardworking white first generation immigrants like you is what the new America should strive to be.
post #92505 of 109053
Blaming children for ruining their entire lives via decisions made during adolescence is totally baffling, particularly coming from a father.
Quote:
But I'm going to stand pat and say that if someone really, REALLY wanted to make the choice to leave their shitty life behind, give up the easy dollar, and try to break free of their conditional underachievement, then they can - if they make a choice to do so. Food stamps, welfare, drug dealing, making ends meet are crutches simply too enticing for many to simply say "enough".

[citation needed]
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