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post #78886 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

^ I'm afraid the fast-fashion mindset has become ingrained in our (Western) consumer culture.

I have a friend who lived in Japan for a little while, and he told me the consumerism there is just as bad as it is in the West. It functions differently, but there's still this obsession with buying and with accumulating possessions. And he said it was more pronounced there than it is in the U.S., at least in his eyes. Now that China has a booming middle class and upper class, consumerism is similarly booming. I don't think it's a Western thing, I guess is what I'm saying. Or at least not anymore. Though I haven't been to China or Japan myself so for me this is all second-hand. Though maybe you could make the argument that they're emulating Western culture, in which case it is a Western thing. I dunno. In any case, consumer culture is global at this point.

Also, I remember bringing up the subject of sweatshops some weeks ago and a few people saying they really aren't that bad. Perhaps the majority in places like China aren't that bad, but there are still a huge number that are, and this factory collapse in Bangladesh makes that clear. Again, though, you run into the quandary of whether it's better for someone in a poor part of Bangladesh to work in a sweatshop or to have make a living doing something like scouring trash heaps or selling their bodies. It's a really sad situation with no easy solution. frown.gif
post #78887 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post


Most of the dudes I see in Carhartt are blue collar dudes who wear it for work. They wear it every day and beat the shit out of it for years until it falls apart. I still have a pair of their heavy duty pants that I purchased during an ill-advised hipster phase in the early part of the last decade. I wear them now when I need to wade into thick brush when doing yard work. Those things are build like a tank. I always thought it was really weird when they did that collab with Adam Kimmel.

I live in Europe, blue collar workers don't wear carhartt here, they wear Kansas.

Carhartt even has a "flagship shop" in downtown Copenhagen right across from Vibskov.
post #78888 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickpackpockpuck View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have a friend who lived in Japan for a little while, and he told me the consumerism there is just as bad as it is in the West. It functions differently, but there's still this obsession with buying and with accumulating possessions. And he said it was more pronounced there than it is in the U.S., at least in his eyes. Now that China has a booming middle class and upper class, consumerism is similarly booming. I don't think it's a Western thing, I guess is what I'm saying. Or at least not anymore. Though I haven't been to China or Japan myself so for me this is all second-hand. Though maybe you could make the argument that they're emulating Western culture, in which case it is a Western thing. I dunno. In any case, consumer culture is global at this point.

Also, I remember bringing up the subject of sweatshops some weeks ago and a few people saying they really aren't that bad. Perhaps the majority in places like China aren't that bad, but there are still a huge number that are, and this factory collapse in Bangladesh makes that clear. Again, though, you run into the quandary of whether it's better for someone in a poor part of Bangladesh to work in a sweatshop or to have make a living doing something like scouring trash heaps or selling their bodies.
It's a really sad situation with no easy solution. frown.gif

I'll probably be setting myself up for a bit smackdown for saying such things, but I think the solution is actually quite easy, it's just one nobody wants to see. Massive tax increases that fund economic development in economically impoverished areas throughout the world. Some people have way too much wealth and squander it away in any number of ways (something I am certainly guilty of) while many other areas have far too little wealth.
post #78889 of 109053
If you think dumping money on impoverished countries are going to help their levels of economic development you are sorely ignorant about development economics.

low cost labor is the only comparative advantage these countries have. applying a western standard of living wages to the situation and capital will just flow away from them, leaving them no better than they were before. And while it'd be nice if heavy public sector investment (i.e. socialism) were a route to economic growth, it's been shown time and time again that the administrators of developing countries are far too corrupt and inefficient to have any real ability to stoke the fires of economic growth.

While that doesn't mean that people should accept factory collapses and stuff, but thinking in terms of "$X dollars a day" severely obscures the dynamics at play.
post #78890 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post


Most of the dudes I see in Carhartt are blue collar dudes who wear it for work. They wear it every day and beat the shit out of it for years until it falls apart. I still have a pair of their heavy duty pants that I purchased during an ill-advised hipster phase in the early part of the last decade. I wear them now when I need to wade into thick brush when doing yard work. Those things are build like a tank. I always thought it was really weird when they did that collab with Adam Kimmel.

I live in Europe, blue collar workers don't wear carhartt here, they wear Kansas.

Carhartt even has a "flagship shop" in downtown Copenhagen right across from Vibskov.

you guys know there is a difference between Carhartt EU and US right?
post #78891 of 109053
zac posen designed pink seersucker valet uniforms for what was once my favorite neighborhood dining establishment...debating whether or not to file a complaint with my neighborhood association.
LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
post #78892 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

I'll probably be setting myself up for a bit smackdown for saying such things, but I think the solution is actually quite easy, it's just one nobody wants to see. Massive tax increases that fund economic development in economically impoverished areas throughout the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

If you think dumping money on impoverished countries are going to help their levels of economic development you are sorely ignorant about development economics.

low cost labor is the only comparative advantage these countries have. applying a western standard of living wages to the situation and capital will just flow away from them, leaving them no better than they were before. And while it'd be nice if heavy public sector investment (i.e. socialism) were a route to economic growth, it's been shown time and time again that the administrators of developing countries are far too corrupt and inefficient to have any real ability to stoke the fires of economic growth.

While that doesn't mean that people should accept factory collapses and stuff, but thinking in terms of "$X dollars a day" severely obscures the dynamics at play.

yeah, unfortunately it isn't that simple for the reasons (plus others) that GN points out. a lot of money ends up in people's pockets. sometimes it's just wasted. even when it does get to its target, it isn't always used effectively. and just giving someone cash doesn't necessarily lead to sustainable growth. a top-down approach like this is good in some ways, like building certain types of infrastructure I would think. but there's also an argument that local, grassroots efforts are more effective. microfinance is based on this idea: you're basically giving someone a loan to help them set up their own business. in a sense it's like "teach a man to fish" versus "give a man a fish." (and then there are criticisms of microfinance as well; people take issue with the idea of it being a for-profit approach, and then some lenders have usurious interest rates and stuff...) I'm by no means very knowledgeable about this stuff. I just read about it a little here and there. But it's like the more you learn the more complicated it seems. But anyone who's interested should read Half the Sky. It focuses on women, but it touches on all this stuff and offers some good ideas backed by hard data.
post #78893 of 109053
the graduate projects from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago fashion design program were more interesting than the ones from Central Saint Martins...lol foo.gif
post #78894 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty View Post

If you think dumping money on impoverished countries are going to help their levels of economic development you are sorely ignorant about development economics.

low cost labor is the only comparative advantage these countries have. applying a western standard of living wages to the situation and capital will just flow away from them, leaving them no better than they were before. And while it'd be nice if heavy public sector investment (i.e. socialism) were a route to economic growth, it's been shown time and time again that the administrators of developing countries are far too corrupt and inefficient to have any real ability to stoke the fires of economic growth.

While that doesn't mean that people should accept factory collapses and stuff, but thinking in terms of "$X dollars a day" severely obscures the dynamics at play.

The problem with the bolded part of your post is that this inevitably leads to a race to the bottom. The Northern Mariana Islands are a good example. Before Bangladesh, these jobs used to be in China and before China they were in Mexico, and before Mexico they were in a right-to-work state (and so on and so on). Someday these jobs won't be in Bangladesh, they'll be in Haiti, and then where does that leave the Bangladeshis.

As 4P points out, the long term solution for impoverished people is education. People that live off of $5 a day, or whatever, live hand to mouth and basically put their children to work as soon as they can to reap the modest gain in living standards. Little is done in many of these countries to encourage educating the next generation at the expense of the current one, and this is what economic development has to be spent on. I'm not sure why India and China are different, but they've basically been able to crawl out of the economic hole (though there is no doubt a good way to go for each of these countries). They were able to do this not because they had cheap labor, but because they spared no expense in developing world class educational systems that sought to take people (even of the lowest economic rungs) and give them an education.

Edit:

I just feel, I know I'm in the minority, that it is up to those who reap the benefits of the labor of such people, to provide them with opportunity to get an education that can lead them away from their current economic conditions, over the long run. If this means dealing with graft and corruption, even on a large scale, it is still probably worth the benefits.
post #78895 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickpackpockpuck View Post


Unfortunately it isn't that simple for the reasons (plus others) that GN points out. a lot of money ends up in people's pockets. sometimes it's just wasted. even when it does get to its target, it isn't always used effectively. and just giving someone cash doesn't necessarily lead to sustainable growth. a top-down approach like this is good in some ways, like building certain types of infrastructure I would think. but there's also an argument that local, grassroots efforts are more effective. microfinance is based on this idea: you're basically giving someone a loan to help them set up their own business. in a sense it's like "teach a man to fish" versus "give a man a fish." (and then there are criticisms of microfinance as well; people take issue with the idea of it being a for-profit approach, and then some lenders have usurious interest rates and stuff...) I'm by no means very knowledgeable about this stuff. I just read about it a little here and there. But it's like the more you learn the more complicated it seems. But anyone who's interested should read Half the Sky. It focuses on women, but it touches on all this stuff and offers some good ideas backed by hard data.

Micro-financing is interesting and useful for any number of reasons. It's not a "new" idea, in that in the developed world, small business loans have been available to any number of companies much too small for private equity to be interested. The crucial part is the infrastructure. I also have no issue with it being a "for profit". Having worked in publicly funded ventures for a long time, I've seen the problems inherent with allowing people to play with "other people's money." Profit is a pretty transparent motive, at very least, and the desire to see a good return on your investment will lead you to think more about building the infrastructure to allow the enterprises you have funded to be successful.

As for the issues in Bangladesh and other developing countries, it's a complicated problem. Lack of infrastructure, corruption, unbridled greed, the demand for cheap, cheap, cheap goods in the USA. You buy a $30 pair of jeans? You are probably part of the problem. The people wearing Dior Homme or Eternal jeans? You guys are just fashion whores (that includes me,) and probably not hurting much, as long as you are remotely fiscally responsible.
post #78896 of 109053
The Met Gala shit was clogging up the twitter feed yesterday. High fashion punk. Not gonna lie. There are a lot of totally uncool jokers in fashion.
post #78897 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

The Met Gala shit was clogging up the twitter feed yesterday. High fashion punk. Not gonna lie. There are a lot of totally uncool jokers in fashion.

Ashley wearing vintage Dior is my pick for best look last night.
post #78898 of 109053
trying to find a cool looking women's black top for my girlfriend's birthday in a few weeks. Anyone here have any ideas? Was thinking of this tank from acne, but it looks weirdly long. Trying to spend around $100.

post #78899 of 109053
That feeling when your tracking doesn't update but the package is at your house within a week smile.gif
post #78900 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

I live in Europe, blue collar workers don't wear carhartt here, they wear Kansas.

Carhartt even has a "flagship shop" in downtown Copenhagen right across from Vibskov.

I saw a Carhartt boutique in the swankest part of San Sebastian. Definitely not the same thing as Carhartt US.


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