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Random fashion thoughts - Page 4967  

post #74491 of 109053
Yeah, it's kind of true. But you run into a problem. Think of Patrik Ervell, who sells at retailers like Barneys and also on his own website. If an Ervell jacket is, say, $600 at Barneys (and that price includes the Barneys markup over wholesale), Ervell still has to sell it for $600 on his site, even though he doesn't need that retail markup to make a profit. If he sells for $300, nobody is going to go to Barneys to buy his stuff. But Ervell kinda needs Barneys, at least right now, and doesn't want to completely alienate Barneys by doing something like that. Barneys has that cachet and introduces his stuff to a much wider audience than he would have otherwise—and is still making him money. I wouldn't be surprised if Ervell made more money from selling to retailers than it makes selling its own products through its webshop at huge markups, though I'm completely speculating. I guess if an established designer like Dries or someone decided they just wanted to sell their stuff cheap online they might be able to do that. But for most designers there's this whole system in place that more or less prevents that. That's not to say that it's not possible; just harder.
post #74492 of 109053
Plus as enthusiasts people on this site generally have a good idea of what they want, how it fits, and what they're willing to pay--excellent web direct sales customers. I don't know if anyone has good data on what proportion of sales for a particular designer are casual (i.e., need the retail interface) vs. people who would seek it out on a designer independent web or b+m store. Like, one Dries van Noten coat might sell to a guy who likes Dries, owns some pieces, saw it on the runway, and buys it from Barneys vs 10 other DVN coats Barney's sells to people who just want a coat and settled on that one.
post #74493 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam!ChairDance View Post

I'm talking about the toj/everlane/american giant business model.

It would let designers charge double their production costs and still lower their prices to significantly less than what "high fashion" usually goes for

TOJ's business model is the lowest cost by far.  Almost no overhead--not even a website, unless he pays Willy.  And the styleforum fee of course.  no idea how much that is, likely peanuts compares to other advertising and web avenues.

 

everlane has a decent of money spent on their website and they have quite a few employees i think too.  

post #74494 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickpackpockpuck View Post

Yeah, it's kind of true. But you run into a problem. Think of Patrik Ervell, who sells at retailers like Barneys and also on his own website. If an Ervell jacket is, say, $600 at Barneys (and that price includes the Barneys markup over wholesale), Ervell still has to sell it for $600 on his site, even though he doesn't need that retail markup to make a profit. If he sells for $300, nobody is going to go to Barneys to buy his stuff. But Ervell kinda needs Barneys, at least right now, and doesn't want to completely alienate Barneys by doing something like that. Barneys has that cachet and introduces his stuff to a much wider audience than he would have otherwise—and is still making him money. I wouldn't be surprised if Ervell made more money from selling to retailers than it makes selling its own products through its webshop at huge markups, though I'm completely speculating. I guess if an established designer like Dries or someone decided they just wanted to sell their stuff cheap online they might be able to do that. But for most designers there's this whole system in place that more or less prevents that. That's not to say that it's not possible; just harder.

Yeah, for established brands, it would be impossible to lower prices on their private storefronts while still selling their stuff to retailers. They would have to break away from retail stores entirely.

But since they've already established their fanbases/clientele, it's totally doable. Basically a parallel to unsigned bands blowing up without the aid of record labels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoreman1782 View Post

Plus as enthusiasts people on this site generally have a good idea of what they want, how it fits, and what they're willing to pay--excellent web direct sales customers. I don't know if anyone has good data on what proportion of sales for a particular designer are casual (i.e., need the retail interface) vs. people who would seek it out on a designer independent web or b+m store. Like, one Dries van Noten coat might sell to a guy who likes Dries, owns some pieces, saw it on the runway, and buys it from Barneys vs 10 other DVN coats Barney's sells to people who just want a coat and settled on that one.

yeah, you've touched on a point PPP raised, which is the awareness and brand-boosting that comes from retailers. But a solid independent web presence can build prominence on its own through social media, word of mouth, etc (basically Everlane's success story). It just means the designer has to work harder to establish a solid digital strategy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbear View Post

TOJ's business model is the lowest cost by far. Almost no overhead--not even a website, unless he pays Willy. And the styleforum fee of course. no idea how much that is, likely peanuts compares to other advertising and web avenues.

everlane has a decent of money spent on their website and they have quite a few employees i think too.

Even with the overhead from a small staff, you'd still get lower prices than the wholesale model
post #74495 of 109053
does someone know by which brand this t-shirt is
post #74496 of 109053

undercover f/w -08

post #74497 of 109053
I don't mean to be all old media here but do you think stuff like Everlane or that denim brand that blew past its kickstarter goal are sustainable? They seem to me more symptomatic of the retail moment than retail future. Plus, those sorts of brands that sell basics are pretty universal in their appeal (upgrade your current X to a slightly better X)--anyone doing design that doesn't already have a built in customer base would have a harder time selling things.

The comparison to a band blowing up and going truly independent is apt in that a band like Radiohead got away with it because there are already millions of Radiohead fans (and every Radiohead album is one-size-fits-all). Even most new music acts that "make it" outside the traditional system (Bieber and some recent hip hop come to mind) really only still "make it" when they get signed.

Side note I really don't want to finish the TPS report I'm working on this afternoon
post #74498 of 109053
3D printing will abolish online purchases soon enough.
post #74499 of 109053

there are still artists that "make it" without getting signed though, like hoodie allen and hopsin for example

post #74500 of 109053
Yeah the model hasn't really been attempted by high-end designers, so I have yet to see how they'd build a brand without the backing of retailers.

I'm pretty confident it's a sustainable model, though. Men's fashion isn't about projecting wealth the way it perhaps used to be, so charging "honest" or "modest" prices instead of the usual markups won't hurt the brand if the company tells its story the right way.

And since the number of menswear tastemakers on the internet is staggering, the path a newer designer would take to garner support would be very similar to the strategy taken by a fledgling blogger or musician-- partner with folks who already have established audiences, such as your magazines, tumblr authorities, all that stuff.

Like, the only thing lost would be the prestige that trickles down from a retailer's backing, as well as the ability to be seen by a passersby who just happened to spy your supercool jacket alongside many others.

But I'm not so sure any designer needs to depend on those two sources of awareness to succeed... dunno
Edited by Bam!ChairDance - 2/27/13 at 12:14pm
post #74501 of 109053

I just want moderately priced long sweaters and tees

post #74502 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofyoung View Post

there are still artists that "make it" without getting signed though, like hoodie allen and hopsin for example

No one knows who Hoodie Allen and Hopsin are. A better example would be Macklemore. He sucks, but he did well for himself.
post #74503 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam!ChairDance View Post

Yeah the model hasn't really been attempted by high-end designers, so I have yet to see how they'd build a brand without the backing of retailers.

I'm pretty confident it's a sustainable model, though. Men's fashion isn't about projecting wealth the way it perhaps used to be, so charging "honest" or "modest" prices instead of the usual markups won't hurt the brand if the company tells its story the right way.

And since the number of menswear tastemakers on the internet is staggering, the path a newer designer would take to garner support would be very similar to the strategy taken by a fledgling blogger or musician-- partner with folks who already have established audiences, such as your magazines, tumblr authorities, all that stuff.

Like, the only thing lost would be the prestige that trickles down from a retailer's backing, as well as the ability to be seen by a passersby who just happened to spy your supercool jacket alongside many others.

But I'm not so sure any designer needs to depend on those two sources of awareness to succeed... dunno

 

The thing about this i don't like is that the type of clothes that will succeed with this model will be really gaudy shit that looks good on internet pictures.  Most of the stuff I own that I ended up really loving is pretty subtle and doesn't look that impressive online.

post #74504 of 109053
You don't think designers would find a way to market subtlety?
post #74505 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam!ChairDance View Post

But a solid independent web presence can build prominence on its own through social media, word of mouth, etc (basically Everlane's success story).

Their referral thing was pretty smart too, though I still won't buy from them because people used to spam referral codes relentlessly in /fa/ when the brand first started.

edit - I should probably get over it.
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