Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty
Do you really know that? or do you just know about assholes on the internet? If the only feminism i was exposed to was feminists on the internet, my view of feminism would be much less charitable (thank god I know a few IRL).
I think that, in a trial by fire, the MRM will have to ditch it's more anti-women fringes if it wants respectability, and probably will. People are genereally sympathetic when injustice is pointed out to them.
I think the bigger opposition to a mainstream acceptance of a moderate MRM is feminists who don't think their problems are real/need MRM'ers to use orthodox feminism to frame their problems in order to take them seriously. They are the ones who can deny legitimacy to the movement because they control the gender-rights conversation. They can
paint the MRM as anti-women, regardless of whether that's a central or fringe aspect of the movement.
As an aside: Women? able to wield power in a way that oppresses men? Perish the thought!
That being said, as a guy who's really good at navigating modern masculinity, (I spit the illest profeminist game when i holla at feminist ladies) I have like 0 personal need for either movement. This is mostly my observations from looking at both.
Okay obviously we're both going to be painting with a broad brush when we're talking about feminism and MRM, but the need to frame things in terms of orthodox feminism (seems like that term shouldn't exist...) is a really sticky issue. Like you've said, there are issues with men adopting adapting that framework. A lot of men will tell you that it doesn't speak to their experience, and a lot of women will tell you that you're diluting the movement, not respecting its historical foundations, etc.
Putting that aside for a second, I think there's something to be said for men working in that framework. IMO it can be a sign of solidarity, acceptance, willingness to change, etc. It's a sign of respect, and a way of giving credit where it's due. There's also the issue of legitimacy-- while orthodox feminism is typically accepted as the only legitimate way to discuss gender issues, it also has a way of legitimizing a lot of unusual ways of acting / thinking / making knowledge claims. Now obviously feminism has always had problems with trying to speak for everyone, but it's at least a start and gives men something to work with.
I don't think you're wrong to say that there are problems with the way feminism has addressed men's issues, but I seriously doubt that's the main problem with MRM. Even if it were, it's not like the MRM guys are engaging those issues in a constructive, intelligent way.